Buzz Sequence Editor Vs Renoise

I’ve been trying to get used to Renoise and the Pattern Matrix, but it still doesn’t work well for me when songwriting, nowhere near as fast and easy as the Buzz Sequence Editor. I thought I’d make a simple video to show what I mean - perhaps somebody here could show me how I can edit in Renoise as quickly as in Buzz, I really want to use Renoise all the time, but the lack of a Buzz style sequence editor just ruins my workflow.

Here’s a simple video:

I only use the cursor keys, ‘0’ and ‘1’, and Ctrl+E to change the end of the loop as I build the song. (Obviously I’d already written the individual patterns beforehand - it isn’t THAT easy in Buzz!)

This is what I have to do in Renoise to achieve similar things:

  • Hold down “Left Control/Command” while dragging to copy blocks instead of just moving them.
  • Hold down “Left Control/Command + Left Alt” while dragging to alias blocks.
  • Hold down “Left Control/Command + Left Shift” while dragging to copy the blocks and place them into a newly created pattern.
  • Hold down “Left Control/Command + Left Alt + Left Shift” while dragging to alias blocks and place them into a newly created pattern.

To me that’s about as unintuitive as it gets, but how do you use the Matrix Editor? Do you find it easy, if so, how?

still?! after ~ two years?
dont get me wrong, i like buzz too. but you may have recognized that there are tracker and there are buzz- users.
they will never intentional copy each other.
i have the impression that most renoise- users prefer the oldschool way of working (“traditional workflow”).
and we should respect that.

Can anybody show me how they do the sort of editing I did in that video, with Renoise?
Buzz IS a tracker, in case you weren’t aware…

The problem with Buzz is that it’s development solely depends on the mood swings of the one developer guy, who obviously doesn’t get enough inspiration to make it a finished, let alone a commercial, product. After so many years it still looks (and behaves) like some abandonware.

Thanks for that, I am aware, that’s why I want to use Renoise. My question (which nobody has answered yet), was HOW do you do that sort of editing in Renoise? Did you watch the video I made?

As a user of Buzz tracker for over 8 years, I felt the same way when first trying Renoise. But with the addition of the pattern matrix I’m able to work in almost the same way, and actually prefer the workflow and stability of Renoise now.

You obviously haven’t tried to use it for more that 30 seconds. If you really have to use the keyboard for that, hit Ctrl+P and enter the alias number manually.

of course it is. dude, no offense. i meant in a sense of the “renoise- forum- history regarding buzz”.
sorry, was a very stupid formulation on my side.
i think there are more ppl who like it easy and simple.

(and yes, i think buzz is the easiest and also the most complex tracker nowadays and ultra fast too and so on, but you know, ‘they’ wont get it)
we are in the same boat, but i never really tried to convince someone (not on rns forums).

however, back to the question, this kind of workflow isnt possible even with workarounds like the clip arranger beta or cells 2.

another more abstract method would be to export all pattern (seperate)
and “sequence” them again in a tradional daw like the free studio one ed., reaper, etc.

The main thing Buzz’s sequence editing has over renoise IMO is clip-style pattern handling. Patterns are per-“track”, have freedom in length and in starting position. That’s the holy grail there, and it’s pretty impressive. :dribble:

The aliasing system of 2.8. was a big step towards that, but renoise sequencing is not in the same level of flexibility as buzz sequencing yet.

To replace your mouse actions, there are several keyboard shortcuts / methods, though. Just whip up your keyboard shortcuts and open the Pattern Matrix section. :)

I was only going by what the manual says.

Can anybody show me (via a video would be very helpful) how you do the sort of things I did in my video, with Renoise? If you could put a text overlay which shows what keyboard shortcuts you are using throughout, I would be very grateful.
I know Buzz isn’t the same as Renoise, I just want to learn how to use the Pattern Matrix properly, if anybody can show me how they work with it, in a video, then maybe I will get the hang of it.

Is it possible to edit as quickly in Renoise as my video of Buzz shows? You sound like it is possible, I only want to know how.

No offense taken, sorry for sounding sarcastic before. I was going to try both of those tools, but I am so used to knocking up sounds in Buzz that it’s hard for me to change, when it’s difficult for me to get used to the Pattern Matrix.

If people were learning Buzz by reading its manual only, we would never see a single track produced in it. No-one can do the learning for you no matter how much video is posted, fire it up, load a demo song in and start messing around with it.

Forget about manuals, if it takes you more than 10 minutes to figure it out on your own, I would recommend that you quit composing altogether due to general incapability.

Let me guess - you’re American.

Why did you put “If you really have to use the keyboard for that” - surely most Renoise users use the keyboard for just about everything? Isn’t that one of the advantages of using a tracker?

There were two school of tracking, FT and IT, the former was mouse oriented, the latter was aimed at keyboard usage. Renoise kinda belongs to both worlds but pattern matrix seems to work better with a mouse.

Look, no need to get all offended, instead of doing your research as they should, you came demanding someone to spend half an hour to an hour of their time to make a video for you of something that is really straight-forward.

Take all the scalding you get here as a sign that you did not do the proper research on the subject, for any genuine requests the folks here will get out of their skin to help you.

Everyone in this thread needs to calm down a bit.

Now, back to the original question.

Personally, I would use the Renoise matrix and pattern aliases as shown here:

Each pattern is 16 beats in length, which is the same length at 64 steps in the linked Buzz video. I use the pattern aliases to maintain synchronization between the patterns.

Workflow wise, I would do the following (with key shortcuts):

  • Create the main pattern by looping a single pattern and adding in the tracks one by one into pattern 0 (which would eventually be pattern 1).

  • I would then clone that pattern (to make patterns 0 and 1) and delete the lead pattern from pattern 0 (a pattern track mute is also an option):

  • Ctrl-Shift-Tab - focus matrix

  • Ctrl-k - clone

  • Arrow keys to lead on pattern 0

  • Delete

  • Arrow keys and shift to select all except lead track on pattern 1

  • Ctrl-p to alias to pattern 0

Then I would clone the pattern 1 again and modify the lead to create a new unique lead pattern (2).

  • Select all tracks with arrow keys
  • Ctrl-k - clone pattern (keeps aliases) and select
  • Arrow keys to lead track (we’re on pattern 2 now)
  • Ctrl-u - unalias pattern track (lead on pattern 2)
  • Ctrl-Tab - focus matrix

Finally I would clone pattern 2 into pattern 3, unalias the drums and make a variation.

  • Ctrl-Shift-Tab - focus matrix
  • Arrow keys and shift to select all in pattern 3
  • Ctrl-k - clone pattern (keeps aliases) and select
  • Arrow keys to drum track
  • Ctrl-u - unalias pattern track (drums on pattern 3)
  • Ctrl-Tab - focus matrix

However, how people arrange is fairly personal and unique to themselves. The above is just a single way out of many possible options. As previously mentioned, you can use the mouse and menus. I sometimes use the mouse for selecting combinations of things with control and use the keyboard for the commands.

Essentially, use it the best way for yourself :)

[edit: added shortcuts]

Renoise team probably has a versioning system that backs up their source code ;)

(oh no you didn’t ! :panic: )

Thankyou very much indeed, mxb, I will give it a go tomorrow and let you know how I get on - that is exactly what I was looking for!

Can I ask - have all the people who replied here, watched the video I posted in the original post?

If you haven’t, and you don’t use Buzz, then you probably don’t understand quite where I’m coming from, because in Buzz it is INCREDIBLY easy to do what I did in that video, whereas in Renoise, going by mxb’s example, it is many times more difficult than it needs to be - all because it uses the Pattern Matrix, rather than a Buzz style sequence editor.

Unless I’m missing something, of course.
I will try using mxb’s method tomorrow and see how I get on.

Are you suggesting that I have never used Renoise and just sat and read the manual? It has taken me more than ten minutes to figure it out, using the manual, and I would never have worked it out on my own without the manual - probably because the Pattern Matrix is a badly designed cludge that can’t compare to the Sequence Editor in Buzz. I thought my video showed that rather well. Can anybody here post a video of them using the Pattern Matrix as quickly as I was able to use the Sequence Editor in Buzz? My video took me three minutes to make, by the way, if that.

That was very quick, are you American?

Most of us here already know how Buzz tracker works. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Renoise to change, there are many people who prefer it to stay the way it is. You’re probably better off just sticking with Buzz if it’s that much of a problem to copy and paste something. This subject has been beaten to death so many times already.

relax. he still continues developing it. but i must admit to disappointment finding out that it’ll never be ported to OS X. too bad he only stated that after i had gone and donated money for his new laptop a couple of times. i would’ve liked a refund around then ;)

I asked if you were an American (I guess you must be), because you wrote “more THAT”. It’s supposed to be “more THAN”, but Americans seem to have become unable to distinguish between the words ‘than’, ‘that’ and ‘then’, and use them interchangeably, all over the internet, and it’s very irritating trying to read their blather.

Of course it only took me three minutes, twenty seconds to set up my screen recorder, and a minute to play about in Buzz, and a minute or so to upload it to Youtube.

I wrote that because YOU wrote:

When did I “come in DEMANDING” anything? Don’t you know the difference between the words ‘demand’ and ‘ask’? Oh wait, I forgot - you’re an American, and you write ‘more THAT’…

“all the scalding” seems to only be coming from you…