Beta mentioned in thread. 
Okay, now I’m completely convinced this guy has to be trolling. I’ve never met anyone so crazy to think their opinions are somehow facts.
I don’t think buzz is superior, but the pattern editor is a lot more musical imo.
Music compositions tend to have processes occurring simultaneously on multiple timescales, having everything on an N row timescale is not ideal. Do people get around this and make great music in renoise? Sure. I also don’t know how to reconcile the all-visible track view in renoise with variable length patterns.
The point still stands that variable length patterns is a more general and natural representation in pretty much any style of music that I can think of.
~r
Thanks again KMaki, for your information about Lua scripting, having looked at the Grid Pie script, I see this code:
if rns.patterns[last_pattern].name ~= “GRID_PIE” then
– Create new pattern
local new_pattern = rns.sequencer:insert_new_pattern_at(total_sequence + 1)
rns.patterns[new_pattern].name = “GRID_PIE”
GRIDPIE_IDX = new_pattern
total_sequence = total_sequence + 1
I presume this is the part that creates the new pattern at the bottom of your Renoise song. It looks like it is definitely possible to create a BSE in Renoise using Lua scripting, as I know nothing about programming I may be completely hopeless at doing it, but I’ll try to learn, and I’ll ask on the forum when I get stuck (not IF!).
If I (or more likely somebody else) were able to produce a BSE using Lua scripting, can that be implemented into the Renoise code IF that’s what the developers want? (In order to save them coding it from scratch.)
Personally I just want the OPTION to use a BSE, as long as a BSE tool is available that I and others can install, if we want to, what happens with the pattern matrix is of no interest to me. I am really impressed by the tools that are available for Renoise, they put it on a whole new level.
it can be released as a tool.
this will be enough.
Sorry to snap you out of your pink cloud, but I was just giving an argument there, not a statement.
Can anybody tell me how I would change track 1 in the first pattern to something else, in the following example, without changing all the aliases? It appears that the aliases are tied to pattern zero in this case, how do you get around this?
(If was doing this in Buzz, I’d just Ctrl-Shift-Enter when in the pattern editor for track 1, which would create a copy of the pattern, then I’d press Enter to go back to the BSE, then type ‘1’ ‘1’ ‘1’ down the page, leaving the first pattern as ‘0’, and then edit the ‘0’ pattern by pressing Enter).
Let the matrix cursor be at pattern 0 (track 1).
Go to next pattern, unalias it:
arrowdown ctrl+U
Go to next pattern, select the next blocks:
arrowdown shift+arrowdown
Change the selected blocks to be aliases of 1:
ctrl+P 1 enter
Go to pattern 0, edit:
pageup esc
I’m not a keys-only-user, I use the mouse for some of this, and also I don’t use aliases a lot.
But this is what I came up with in a couple of minutes. I guess those are standard keybindings. HTH.
Edit:
Just noticed you seem to click to create each aliased block. No need to do this, simply drag down.
You and I, kinda posted at the same time, so I read this… after I did a quick edit… I just wanted to add that, I found a very quick way its like, “two steps.”
un-alias, cut/paste, use = “convert notes in track” tool.
I guess its not, “as sexy as buzz,” or whatever…
Thanks very much for your help, 2dazej, can you tell me exactly what keys to use for your method, as I’m not very used to Renoise’s shortcut keys, and I wasn’t quite sure what you meant exactly (f+d+k’s method worked perfectly for me though).
I’m still learning the short cut keys… 
There’s 10.5 million LOL! but I just, “didn’t want to leave you hanging there, waiting for me to respond.”
I use the mouse a lot, and I use short cut keys, when I think of them, or when I remember… But I can’t figure out, “any system,” I have for using the keys in any specific way…
Cheers
Oh well, I’m sure I will be very happy with whatever does come in the forthcoming Beta, whether there are any improvements to the Matrix/Arranger or any other areas of Renoise 
To the devs: when the pattern matrix was introduced, were users able to vote for it, like they can vote for other new features? Were users given other sorts of arrangers to vote for, or was it just the pattern matrix or nothing?
it was the pattern matrix or nothing. renoise is not developed according to a committee and votes from end-users.
i cannot even IMAGINE how slow Renoise development would be, if they had to come up with 4-5-9-100 different arrangers, create designs + user workflow for them, shortcuts, interfaces for users to test, so that users can basically not be able to make any decision, thus making sure that Renoise does not progress anywhere at all.
are you really imagining a situation where we get shown 3-10 different graphical mockups of a possible arranger design, and people vote on them?
i really wish some heavy-weight Renoise developer would step into this conversation and just kill it with kindness. “given other sorts of arrangers to vote for” … … i cannot believe what i’m reading here.
d’you really think that an arranger is some individual, independent layer which can just be dumped on top of Renoise, without any need to bolt it in and make it work with every other part of Renoise?
Yes, of course - there were plenty of very good suggestions, with mockups, in the pattern arranger thread on here.
Yes I do, haven’t you seen Grid Pie? Of course it’s just an independent layer which is “dumped on top” of Renoise, using Lua scripting. Anyway - the point is, I thought users were able to vote on options - the arranger is the most vital part of a tracker, and if they were given only one option - the pattern matrix, or no change, how do we know the pattern matrix was the most popular option?
You are welcome to not read this thread since it bothers you so much.
Just because someone got out their photoshop or any other tool for making graphical mockups with, does not automatically mean that Renoise should halt all development and start programming a voting system to get some random answers from random people who have not developed Renoise from the beginning and who have no idea about the programming challenges faced everytime one dives in to develop new features or tweak current features.
Grid Pie was coded by a 3rd party guy who took the time to learn LUA and make his dream come true. there are others, such as Rableton Dive, and whatever tools MXB is working on nowadays. this does not mean that they should be implemented into Renoise to replace the Pattern Matrix, as they are 3rd party tools. I would not be surprised to see that the Renoise devteam might take some INSPIRATION from 3rd party tools, but for them to be implemented so that they fit completely into the way Renoise is thought about by the devteam, is not something we can force, and they will continue developing Renoise in the way they want to do it. not halting all development to get some votes in based on mockups.
You thought wrong. User-voting has not happened for ages. Look at this thread . the last time there was voting was for features for version 1.8. Renoise has done splendidly without backstage-voting from users, and is doing better than ever. Almost everything from the 1.8 version votes has been created, improved upon, and then some.
Here’s the image for you so you don’t have to click.
Notice that the users who voted for THESE features before v1.8. also notice that it says specifically: “An Arranger View (visually arrange PatternSequences and Blocks)” which is exactly what the PatternMatrix is.
Also, there are far more people who want “A Piano Roll View” than people who want “Buzz Sequence View”. LUA Scripting has allowed people to create any kind ofsequencer they want, for any kind of midi-controller they want, or for any kind of LUA Gui they want, or any kind of keyboard shortcuts that they want. All of them are experimental, some of them are amazing, some of them are good, some of them are poor. They augment and improve upon the Pattern Editor, Order-List and Pattern Matrix. None of them can replace the Pattern Matrix, not even by a long shot!
So the devs had to “halt all development and start programming a voting system” before? Doesn’t the forum already have a voting system? Why are you making up rubbish like this? “Random people”? No, I was talking about REGISTERED owners. You sure are terrified of losing the pattern matrix, aren’t you.
That doesn’t follow at all. “this does not mean that they should be implemented into Renoise, as they are 3rd party tools”. So no improvements to Renoise that have already been implemented as tools, should finally be implemented by the devs? Why? You’re not talking sense.
LOL - yet again you claim that they would “halt all development” to find out what their paying customers actually want… how ridiculous.
So you’re claiming that the LACK of user voting is why Renoise is doing “better than ever”? Please explain. Again, how ridiculous. It’s quite obvious that if you are making a piece of software for people, you should ASK them what they want it to do. I realise you’re afraid of that, of course…
And it’s also ‘exactly’ what the Buzz Sequence Editor is, isn’t it. In fact, it sounds a LOT more like the Buzz Sequence Editor than the pattern matrix, doesn’t it - “visually arrange PatternSequences and Blocks”. Because you really can arrange blocks in Buzz, but NOT in the pattern matrix, not in the way that any normal person would expect to do so.
It isn’t ‘exactly’ either of them really, because it isn’t a very precise definition, is it. LOL.
How do you know that? I thought we weren’t able to vote on what we wanted any more? LOL again.
Really? Of course the Buzz Sequence Editor could replace the pattern matrix, who claimed that any of the CURRENT tools could replace it? None of them are designed to, but Grid Pie proves that a BSE could be made.
Care to show us a VIDEO of how you use the Pattern Matrix, and how it is better than the Buzz Sequence Editor? Oh, wait…
That’s what I asked at the beginning of this entire thread, and still nobody can do it. This is beyond a joke - a handful of people defending the pattern matrix like it’s their religious text, yet unable to explain why it’s so good. I still can’t use Renoise to write songs with, I tried and tried, but the pattern matrix just sucks so bad compared to the BSE that I always end up using Buzz, in spite of the fact that Renoise has about ten times as much power as Buzz.
What exactly is so good about the pattern matrix? Can’t you even explain this? I’ve SHOWN you what’s so good about the Buzz Sequence Editor, and explained it, why have the pattern matrix ‘cult’ been unable to defend their ‘religion’?
esaruoho: Do not feed the trolls
LOL - any questioning = ‘trolling’.
Nothing constructive to add? Like maybe a video of you using the pattern matrix to write a song? Or is that confidential information? How truly bizarre. This is like walking into some religious cult and questioning their religion- no factual debate, no discussion allowed, ‘heretics’ to be shunned and hissed at. May I suggest you stay away from this thread if you have such a problem with me discussing the merits of the Buzz Sequence Editor? The clue is in the title of the thread.
Or in other words, I’ve owned Esaruoho and rebutted his ludicrous comments, and you have nothing to add. Obviously some people who use Renoise are paranoid about the pattern matrix, can’t explain or show why it’s so good, yet are desperate to KEEP it, even though a much better solution has always existed.
Still waiting for ONE video of somebody using it, and showing why it’s so good, shouldn’t be difficult, mine only took three minutes to make.
Perhaps you should tune it down from a 11 to a 3 or so (your attitude that is)… just saying.