Just as a feature joke suggestion, the ability to “print” a schematic of complex routes or grid style signal flow like the youtube Pipe Dream video.
Back to thoughts on parameter collection and 2.8.1, I may exchange the Hydra and use the XY meta device instead since the visuals gives more of an immediate description of modulation range. I imagine it is also “event” friendly since I can take 4 XY devices and use two tracks to express the modulations in “events” but still connected to one device on a send track for example. The Hydra will still get some use but maybe more on signal following and meta mixing.
Here for another round of off the beaten path commentary on the mixer, mostly about the subject of perspective.
Generally when I make music, I like to maintain this out of body like experience
where my mind is in one place and my body in a room translating that other world into Renoise.
Its interesting and contradictory to work in this manner,
the mind full to the brim with depths of field while staring at the computer with little to no depth of field.
Still scratching my head on how to fit the idea of perspective in the mixer…
This perhaps have been brought up before in this topic, but I imagine both zoom in and out ability!
Zoom OUT to get a better overview of the pattern from start to finish, without being forced to scroll up and down.
Zoom IN to be able to - for instance - insert pattern effect command ”between the lines”, without the need to change the tempo/LPB and reconstruct the whole project. (Actually I believed the second mentioned featurewas actually implemented some years ago[???], but I could be wrong/not able to find it.)
I love this concept. I only recently realised how useful it would be to me. I like to use 16 LPB with 128 lines pattern length and 1 TPL, so i can’t ever see the whole pattern. A zoom out feature would be massively helpful like image in the post above or that revisit thing.
I love this concept. I only recently realised how useful it would be to me. I like to use 16 LPB with 128 lines pattern length and 1 TPL, so i can’t ever see the whole pattern. A zoom out feature would be massively helpful like image in the post above or that revisit thing.
I made such thing in a crappy way In a tool. Since it is basically a pattern expansion + tempo fixing on the fly. But lua is to slow for this, it should be as fast as lightning and integrated to the daw… It will never happen :3
Also pattern need to have individual lpb then, so lpb per pattern. Good night.
I made such thing in a crappy way In a tool. Since it is basically a pattern expansion + tempo fixing on the fly. But lua is to slow for this, it should be as fast as lightning and integrated to the daw… It will never happen :3
Also pattern need to have individual lpb then, so lpb per pattern. Good night.
Maybe that’s why the thread got unpinned.
Sad story for those who followed this thread intensely all this time (started by Danoise 9 years ago).
Nothing mysterious about that. I unpinned it primarily for these two reasons:
I lost some of the source files (flash) that are running the interactive demos. Without those, the presentation itself is too broken that it deserves to be pinned IMO.
Concept is outdated. A proper concept needs to be revisited with each major version, and I simply haven’t done that. Half of the features in there are now possible (pattern matrix? instrument clips?), so a refreshed concept would actually be much simpler today.
I think the most important idea presented in this “zoomable concept” is not the zooming itself, but the ability to work in a continuous editing mode. Complicated, yes. Worth it?
Nothing mysterious about that. I unpinned it primarily for these two reasons:
I lost some of the source files (flash) that are running the interactive demos. Without those, the presentation itself is too broken that it deserves to be pinned IMO.
Concept is outdated. A proper concept needs to be revisited with each major version, and I simply haven’t done that. Half of the features in there are now possible (pattern matrix? instrument clips?), so a refreshed concept would actually be much simpler today.
I think the most important idea presented in this “zoomable concept” is not the zooming itself, but the ability to work in a continuous editing mode. Complicated, yes. Worth it?
Thanks for clarifying.
True, you were talking about more stuff than the zooming all those years ago. But clearly the title of the topic is about zooming and this particular feature has been discussed in the later pages of this thread. I now understand why you chose to unpin the topic though.Maybe a new topic, a fresh start would work better.
I mean, the concept itself is still up to date and the conditions for it are already set now. The Delay Column indicate a greater resolution in the engine. Moreover, phrases could potentially be a work-around as well? It seems like you can set another LPB, but not sure how well this works since I haven’t delved into that so much.
I just think it gets kind of restricting to rely on an overall hyped paced playback just for some casual “harp-effect” here and there? It gets kinda trippy.
Btw - and this could maybe be useful for anyone else missing a zoom-out feature - I was looking in the preferences of Renoise; By selecting Font size: “Small” you actually get an overview of the whole pattern as long as you hide the lower frame & the scopes at the top. Presumed the pattern is a maximum of 3F (hex) lines. I’m sure there could be a “Very small” setting in the future as well, so you can see the scopes for example at the same time.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by continuous editing mode and “worth it”? It sounds good though.
No, but then of course multiple lines would be used with delay values? EDIT: Ok, that wouldn’t work with note-off. Anyway personally I would be much more interested in a zoom-in. So you base song seth is the maximum zoom-out setting.
Nevermind. I just wish there was LPB per pattern, that overloads the LPB per song, so optional.
Still watching only the (selected) line, of course.
What would be great about this the ability to spot/enter stuff like LFO and Device ON/OFF commands.
What I’m undecided about is how the “continuous mode” play into this. By ignoring it, counting would reset for each pattern. This makes sense from a display point of view, but would be strange when editing (you’re used to that entering a note at position 60 in a 64-line pattern will bring you to line 2).
These examples are exactly what I was trying to demonstrate a little bit back in this thread [link] (whoa 2 years ago… time flies!), but the images were not that worked through although the idea got through I think.
Maybe the 3x Zoom isn’t that intuitive for accurate editing but may give some satisfactory overview temporarily… Depending on the project.
Anyway, I agree that pattern boundaries aren’t necessary but more about this later in this post.
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Interesting, but maybe I’m missing the point. Because, aside from a total overview, I would probably have a hard time to input notes with that kind of zoom out. But yes, just for the sake of zooming I’d agree. However, maybe a better Pattern Matrix would solve some kind of issues here…
Wouldn’t some kind of continuous timeline, not based on patterns, in the Pattern Matrix be a more natural solution? That’s how most DAWs works; Clips on a timeline. The “Blocks” in the Pattern Matrix is basically the same thing, just a bit butterfingered in current form. Also, you may want to switch to horizontal mode to get a better overview of the timeline though.
So, the Blocks / Clips could instead determine the lengths of the tracked stuff. Meaning, Renoise could be Pattern Matrix-based rather than Pattern Editor-based. I was recently talking about this in another topic, actually [link].
With this approach you could focus & select the areas where there actually are note information in your song. Moreover, no need to input the kick-notes more than once and/or copy & paste blocks - just loop a small block. Additional blocks are needed only when you want to do modifications like drum-fills etc.
Another example, if I just want to edit the bass to match the kick I just select the corresponding blocks. Which could be a relief if there are other tracks in between, because I don’t need to see them (not to mention, all the areas in the tracks where there are no actual notes!). Also, in this hypothetical case, all the drum tracks are grouped, which makes sense on its own to not move tracks around.
Anyway, tried to compile the ideas in a picture down below. I may have gotten off the track a bit regarding the zoom-in discussion though, so I save that for another post. But well, just imagine zoom in & out for both the PM and the PE. Oh, and this is in hexadecimal btw.
Perhaps the ‘filter by every nth line’ (poor man’s zoom) is a different idea altogether. It does something differently, which I find exciting. But it’s not easy to say how it should behave on pattern boundaries.
Mm, I’m pretty sure a scripted prototype would help here (now I’m really sidetracking…)
As for your suggestion: If you look at the two parts in your image, they are actually very similar.
Would it not be better to have just one interface when things are represented in such a similar way, anyway? You’re loosing an essential part of the PM by allowing it to zoom in (overview), something I think could be solved better by the PE
Another quick thought: a lot of your emphasis seems to be on ‘clips’. The way a normal DAW does them, you say. But I think we progressed beyond that point, because we have something far more advanced now (phrases). Just a question of how you look at /work with them.
And with autoseeking samples and phrases and whatnot, perhaps a different/reworked could then have mutes that work from pattern edges as default, but able to be more finegrained if needed.
Because when I play my autoseeking phrase it will stop/resume when muted or unmuted - this is actually very powerful stuff that you can currently only do live, not record anywhere.
or grid style signal flow like the youtube Pipe Dream video.
