Delay-colum Space-symbol - It Hurts ;)


I had some internal discussions with taktik about the space symbol ("-") for the delay column … but without a result … so we decided to ask for users opinion too.

imho this “-” space symbol hurts on the eyes atm and it seems that nothing is more important than this column in the pattern screen.

what do you think about? my suggestion would be a vertical 3-dot-line. it’s nice and the vertical thing associates to something this value does: moves the note virtually down ;)

here is a screenshot with my suggestion:

(click for full size)

Not a bad idea.
Always difficult to really know what is best before it is tested over time (habits and stuff…)
Perhaps you could post the font (if you have a font editor)?

atm it’s not possible to implement this symbol because the “-” symbol between note and octave is used for the delay column too!

Ah, that problem again. :confused: I also tried similar stuff in earlier versions. Same problem.
In general there would be a good idea to never share symbols in the pattern editor.

taktik said it’s no big thing to change this …

I like your suggestion, since it represents the actual delaying from top to bottom a bit better, but i can also live with the current one. It hurts might be maybe a bit too exaggerated. ;)

During alpha phase, I would accidently write effects that work in the volume/panning column into the new delay column often. It would take me a few seconds of being frustrated and annoyed to realize that D3 in the vol/pan column isn’t the same as D3 in the delay column, and I screwed up, yet again.

It definitely needs it’s own symbol. Don’t really care what it is. I like – but so long as it’s different I’m cool with it.

in general i think the only way to prevent this a little more are different background-colors for every column-type … maybe.

Colors don’t do it here.

The problem is that volume and panning do different things for the numbers 0 to 80, BUT both columns do exactly the same things for 90 to FF.

This new column introduces a new behavior, incompatible with the previous.

I use the 90-FF range way more than the 0-80 range , and unless there is a clear distinction without having to rely on colors i’ll be pounding my frustrated fist into the keyboard every few minutes.

Who here wants to recite something like “if it’s blue it’s not for you but if it’s green or yellow then retrig a go go” when all you have to see is – and know immediately that’s not what you want?

hm … pattern editing has it’s limits in usability imho and new features needs time to learn!? ;)

i’d rather have a vertically and horizontally centered dot per digit.

like this:

Added my vote for 3 vertical dots. I like that (also more that a single dot, btw). But no big deal either way.

This is quite a good compromise, isn’t it? The vertical lines/dots are a bit too intrusive IMHO, they are breaking the layout.

This symbol only works if you have two columns.

If you only have the delay column, then you don’t have any reference point to it being “the smaller dot” and we’re back to esoteric again.

It’s a compromise, but is it a good one?

How about just make a separate symbol for each column? Let ppl make their own font using a font editor and post them here for testing.

The problem here is you have 3 “variable” columns.

If all three columns were static, i’d have no problems. (all ON or all OFF, together)

If there was a symbol at the top of the column (like a little v, or p, or d - any symbol, i don’t care) i’d have no problem.

But right now, we have a problem. It was acceptable with two columns i.e. 50% chance you got it right when using 0-80 and 100% right when using 90-FF. But now with the introduction of a third ‘variable’ column things have gotten beyond annoying and need a visual cue.

Again, it’s an opinion. It’s not like I won’t learn to live with it. But instead of sprinkling fairy dust and calling it a coherant design, why not solve the above problem? Solving problems is what design is supposed to do in the first place. Hence “DESIGN” and not “ART”

Conner_BW … we discussing the space symbol not the concept of these 2-digit columns!!! ;)

2 dots? :dribble:

(click for full size)

but a single dot is ok too :)


I was actually quite happy that the dashes are clearly contrasting with the dots so you know for sure that the delay column is very good distinguishable.

Everybody is drawing vol/pan and delay columns to show the contrast but not the delay column in sole mode (with pan.vol hidden).

With the first concept and the current concept, you know that you are dealing with the delay column

The compromise idea in the second picture gets too much back into the dots mode and may specially remain confusing if you hide volume and panning column because that situation is what matters most.