It would be awesome to have an additional LFO that went deep into the audio range. Seems like either some parameter tweaks on the current device or a whole new device wouldn’t be crazy hard to make. Lots of modulation possibilities.
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Yeah, I’ve been wishing for years to have some form of audio-rate modulation source as a modulation device - like our AHDSR, envelope, fader, etc… I had envisioned it as a smaller version of the waveform/sample editor where you could load in audio - could be a simple sine wave, speech, another synth sample, whatever - and use that to modulate modulation destinations (volume, panning, pitch, etc) to create complex AM and PM/FM synthesis… Seems like it wouldn’t be so hard to implement, and would expand renoise’s synthesis capabilities immensely. But… I don’t know the first thing about coding, lol, so there’s probably a good reason why crossing over to audio-rate in modulation is tricky.
I’m still dreaming, tho!
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Yeah that’s kind of what I was thinking too. Another way to generate tones and smash sounds together
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It looks like you really need the bitwig grid 
you can do all that really simply.
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Ah, but I like renoise! And I like the $400 that bitwig costs where it is in my bank acct
thx for the suggestion tho!
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@slujr Yep, feeling the same - would rather have the money where it belongs. I actually like Bitwig - I have used it, and have the very cheap 8-track limited version. But, I am so tired of piano-rolls; I do prefer Renoise as a “whole” for a DAW. I just flow with Renoise better. So, these requests for increased sample-mangling capabilities/synthesis are really something that would provide for more sound generation internally. I will always generate my own sounds - if this could be done on a greater scale in Renoise - wowee, man.
Been doing synthesis for 27 years now, and have used Reason for 20-something years, as well as other DAWs. Bitwig was going to be my next purchase, until I got very into Renoise. Renoise is just… so much more accurate. I get what I put into it, and none of that piano-roll stuff I’ve been messing with for all these years. On top of that, Renoise is really what is pushing me forward musically. A new (yet old) way to compose music, and it’s so flexible! It allows me to access more abstract methods easier. Yes, it can be done in other DAWs, but this is the one for me.
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I must disappoint you…modulation is usually bound to a rate much slower than audio rate. Even if it was happening at sample rate, it still would not be optimal in sound due to aliasing and similar phenomena. And all the DSP effects are also not coded for having their parameters modulated at audio rate. It has its reason that there is a dedicated ringmod, and one would not just use an LFO and a gainer. Another side effect would be that such modulation and additional DSP techniques would make renoise use a considerably higher amount of CPU time.
If you want audio rate trickery in your sound, you will need to use a program that was coded with audio rate modulation in mind, for example a virtual modular synthesizer VST plugin used from renoise. I doubt renoise will make a rewrite to become such capabilities in near future, it would be a real big task to work. The entire audio engine would probably need to be recoded, and every DSP also to take account for a higher modulation rate and dealing with side effects like aliasing.
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This I understand, but I will reiterate (as I have in other posts) -
Personally, I don’t always want or need a perfect Yamaha FM/PM sound - I can (and have) created those tones already via several single-cycle waveform methods available either online, or even as long ago as using the Windows Orangator.exe program.
I see audio-rate FM as another way to create varying sounds with the synthesis already in Renoise. An audio-rate LFO with brief buzzes on a say, a filter. Or, panning, or pitch, or sample start/end positions (thinking of the granular Tools like SMC and RxMarkers). A faster LFO will allow for greater sound generation, one way or another.
Heck, for a while there, on pouet.net, we had “Clinkster”, but it doesn’t work in Renoise currently. A little heavy on the CPU, but that’s a full FM/PM synthesizer; right off the bat claims to need optimization: Clinkster by Loonies :: pouët.net It worked briefly when I started with Renoise.
I would rather stay purely in Renoise for all sampling and synthesis.
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kinda figured it was like that… thanks for laying it out
there is plenty of sound-mangling potential already within renoise, and of course there is a whole world of plug-in capability to engage with as well. guess I’m just a purist, lol. if I can do it all within renoise, then that’s my preference. But I haven’t been holding my breath for this, just dreaming
Been doing synthesis for 27 years now, and have used Reason for 20-something years, as well as other DAWs. Bitwig was going to be my next purchase, until I got very into Renoise. Renoise is just… so much more accurate. I get what I put into it, and none of that piano-roll stuff I’ve been messing with for all these years. On top of that, Renoise is really what is pushing me forward musically. A new (yet old) way to compose music, and it’s so flexible! It allows me to access more abstract methods easier. Yes, it can be done in other DAWs, but this is the one for me.
lol, this is almost my story exactly. you got me beat by a year tho… only 26 yrs in synthesis here
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The free vital vst has audio rate lfo and advertised as such.
I like both renoise and bitwig, I can’t stick to one. I think that’s ok too
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I shelled out the dough for the 400 bitwig and it’s great. But I enjoy renoise so much I will never quit using it. Ive gotten so used to the tracker interface I feel completely handicapped with the piano roll. There’s so much in renoise I doubt I could ever exhaust the possibilities. I guess my dream setup would be thebitwig grid as a vst played in renoise.
On a sidenote if the renoise team made a vst that was basically a tracker to piano roll Interpreter that allowed you to work in the tracker interface but then sent the notes to the piano roll to play the instrument that would be dope.
(I also have redux which is great.
But imagine bitwigs grid with a tracker in frontof it.
Drifting off topic.
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Maybe you could try using renoise to control another daw via virtual midi connections?
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I can’t stick to one. I think that’s ok too
poly is cool as long as everyone is on board 
But yeah, I’m sure there are a million options for audio rate modulation… back in the early 2000s there was this great little program called cell synth that allowed you to modulate anything with anything. super fun. wrote some tunes on it back in the day. just wish renoise had that natively, bc renoise is such an enjoyable way to work (for me).
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That sounds cool but I’m pretty unknowledgeable on daw to daw integration. I’ll look into it.
Which is why reaktor should be in everyone’s toolbox
Sure renoise could benefit from some more audio rate modulation capable routing etc…but let’s stay realistic .
Some suggestions are just pipe dreams , you can’t expect renoise to become a complete modular capable synth a la reaktor , bitwig .
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Yeah I hear that. I’m actually very happy with renoise! I do way more experimentation with renoise than with any other daw I’ve messed with. After I thought about it for a bit more I sort of realized the ringmod basically does everything an audio rate LFO would do for me.
It depends how you use see it …
The ringmod only multiplies an audio signal at audio rate , you can’t use it as a modulator to control let’s say frequency etc…that would require an internal control update system that processes each sample/tick ( for modulations )at sample rate freq., like in reaktor .
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I wonder if you made a ringmod synth using the empty sample technique with a key tracker and put a signal follower on it and sent it to another tracks gainer or other effect parameter some controllable audio range LFO could maybe be achieved.
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I’d be surprised if the signal follower was that responsive, but sounds worth trying
OK, just tried this using a keytracked ringmod with a signal follower running into a hydra input tied to phaser floor and ceiling values. a fairly high feedback value on the phaser (~98.5%) and the results are interesting… will definitely keep messing with this concept. would be great if there was a pitch shifter or frequency shifter in renoise dsp to tie the signal follower to.
great idea @dd_claws! this opens up some new (to me at least) territory for experimentation
definitely some aliasing going on
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