Hi all,
you created your song and used the groove settings - the beat shuffles and the music sounds groovy as it should be. Suddenly want to create a funky break or change the groove inbetween the song - and you’re stuffed.
Solution:
Get rid of the Groove Settings! The Mst (Master) track has a new column, by default its values are filled with the vaule 0 (0%), you can simply define for each position in the pattern how to groove and shuffle.
What do you think?
Agree 100% that the current implementation could use some work. I wouldn’t want it on the Mst, but rather as a Meta Device, so you could have it on for each track. Possibly a graphical editor for it too, akin to what Logic, energyXT, ++ have.
The way it’s done in energyXT is a very good example, and I think for a Groove Meta Device to be any kind of cool, it would have to incorporate velocity and beat displacement that had full range, i.e. allowing for anything from a very severe to a very subtle effect.
Being able to automate all of these parameters would allow for some amazing stuff to happen.
You just proposed this:
But then only using a different measurement system.
In that case just rather do this instead in Renoise 1.5 now and don’t use the fixed groove system.
I like the other proposition better where someone proposed a possibility to change the groove settings from within the pattern editor.
You can then have a fixed value that you can change on every line if you desire or just change at one or two positions in the song without having to constantly redefine the values over and over again.
I would still love to use this method, but vst plugins go crazy and some of them start to make click noises when changing the BPM-speed quickly. The F0X speed method doesn’t work when using vsti’s. That’s why you need a method which doesn’t effect the BPM-speed (like the groove settings) by just delaying the notes about x amount of ticks.
Indeed, having a meta device for that would be a great solution - BUT then you would need to copy and paste the delay settings for each track you want to shuffle - and that’s in most cases in all of tracks. What if this Meta Device would work on the master track too? So everyone could be happy and it would be most flexible.
why not leave the ‘groove settings’ section as it is, but make it automatable + maybe add an option to be able to switch it on and off (like with the effects)
Larion, hehe yeah I see. Mst too would be ultimate. 
The current implementation is too subtle IMHO, and isn’t very effective since ‘proper’ swing isn’t just time, but dynamics (strong/weak beat concept and stuff like that). Having it as a Meta Device would allow for tinkering that could get things even more in the pocket, without too much effort. I.e. if you’d want a certain track to lag behind another in a certain way.
If you were going to do all that with pattern effect commands, it could get very tedious. Having it automatable would just be the icing on the cake.
Jonas the Plugexpert is Right!
Why not just make the sliders in the groove settings automatable?
I use the groove-section alot, still some way to make it automatable would be very nice. with a pattern command or something.
Try it in energyXT or Logic and see what you think. I’ve seen it elsewhere, but these are the two I have had an ok experience with, and that I know are well featured.
With a groove option, you should get anything from a subtle effect, to one that almost has one beat overlapping the other. Whether or not you can get a noticeable effect should have nothing to do with what BPM/speed you’re using.
If anything is to happen to it in Renoise, I think that it needs to be reworked from the ground up, looking at the above two and whatever else there is.