Copycat - An Idea

Here is a new idea for a meta device: Copycat :D
Very useful to copy and modify values from one track to another, from patterndata to any track in a DSP chain in another track. Useful for lot of things., for e.g. applying volume levels from one track to another, or crazy things like converting offset values from one track (command 9) to volume and such without adding or editing another column in the destination track. There are VST plugins like envelope followers which just read the sample volume of a track - with copycat you can read this value and apply it to any effect.

Hot idea and very nice presentation. :)

Not the right spot to put such idea (meta devices), it should rather be a part of the advanced edit.
It looks complex though, even with the explanation i don’t see the comfort of it.
And if you go copycatting anyway… Where is the automation data?

Having copycat in advanced edit is great for static data - but would not be interactive. As i said, a good example is a evelope follower vst plugin - get the volume level of one track and apply it to another.

The comfort is to save time by not editing too much when the data already exist on another track. Automate a vst plugin on one track and use the same or modified settings (by adding, multiplying…) on another track. Sure you can always do it by ‘editing by hand’.

The automation data sits the original source of where you copy it from, there must be a source to use it otherwise there is nothing to copycat :) But then again, it can do more than do than just simple copy - and its interactive.

Another example: add to 10% a filter level from track 1, to the filter level of track 2. During time, increase in copycat 10% to 100% so they have the same filter amount - its interactive.

The whole thing is about Advanced Edit becoming more modular (i.e. slap on a groove device, copycat device, humanization device, note inversion device, harmonizer device, ++) that will alter (or in this case just read) parts of the pattern data (based on a filtered criteria like now, i.e. only notes, only volume), and then have an actual, hands on link between said events and the DSP section, through an Advanced Edit Meta Device.

I’ve wanted this ever since I started using Renoise, as it allows for non-destructive editing of the pattern data (i.e. nothing written to the pattern).

That would simply be mindblowing! I haven’t thought that far, but you are right, having more metadevices controling/altering/reading pattern data and vst values must be the end of evolution in the history of music trackers.

The only next big thing i can think of is writing renoise-scripts to alter all these data, which work in realtime as meta-devices. That has been suggested couple of times, but i think i’ll see that in my lifetime.

But hey, one step in a time, for now, some more meta devices would be nice.

Nothing to add except i agree.

If it weren’t for the fact that the LFO device doesn’t handle pattern effect commands, you could have solved a lot with that one.
Also this minipattern idea might solve a lot of issues instead of using this device.

Yeah. I don’t know what would be the most elegant way to do something like this, but with all the stuff being done already, I guess there’s time to discuss and refine it a bit.

The thing I like most about this is the ease of use.
Anything can be inserted, removed or altered with a simple click or drag of a slider, and if it were a true reproduction of the DSP section, you’d have them totally interchangeable, with load/save chains, automation, etc.
Each would have it’s own catered interface, so it’d arguably be more user friendly than a generic LFO device, and you’d avoid hard coding into any pattern.

just a thought,
i think this “hard coding” let keep your own typing in mind, while planning the next step.
linear programming/typing.

Yep. The mini pattern idea (assuming it’s the idea from the Rni future thread) has many, many uses.

You could enter volume, effects, speed (supposing a mini pattern would have it’s own local speed, BPM and length, and the ability to change global speed and BPM), global and local pattern breaks, and it would probably work great, but having to manually write down all the values, it’s not as easy to change back and forth between ideas.

But, like I think you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong), it is the perfect place to create a meta device, or the basis for one.

The perfect syngergy would be with something like Larion mentioned, where you’d be able to make your own meta devices with scripting (conditions) and mini patterns (hard coded).
I’m assuming that scripting and pattern editing would really equate to the same thing in the end, even if scripting is interactive and has extended logic, whereas a mini pattern is basically unanimated.
Hubs versus switches and routers all over again.

I.e. they’d both be using readily availible pattern commands to non-destructively alter or read the pattern data of the actual track they were inserted on.

So let’s say I want to make a groove meta device. I’ll do as follows:

Go to Advanced Edit, select New… from Meta Devices.
In the Meta Device’s panel, open a Mini Pattern and enter some speed and volume values.
Write a script that creates controls for the values I have just entered.

Maybe a few new effect commands could be introduced, like forward/backwards beat displacement and exchanging one beat for another, etc.

Just for the sake of it, here’s a few feature suggestions that could be solved with this:

Something like this could be done as a 3rd party tool when the next edition comes out. Won’t have the same immediate effect as having it inside Renoise, but it’s a lot better than nothing.