How about renoise native synths?

I know there are plenty of VSTs but the thought of renoise having its own inbuilt synthesizers controlled efficiently by renoise pattern commands sounds pretty appealing to me. Like buzz, except renoise kicks buzz’s azz.(I know you can control VST by pattern command too) Anyone agree this would be a nice feature? Any thoughts?

I’m getting away pretty good just using crudely drawn chipsamples…

…but you get my +1 for this one =)


ReSynth rules.

I guess, the advantage of a native synth would be automating it’s
parameters, like PW, cutoff, ADSR values, LFO freq or oscillator mix. I don’t think
ReSynth allows this.

+1 for native synth.

Oh my God, this. This is what I’ve been waiting for. Resynth helps, but what it creates cannot really be automated.

Perhaps Renoise can make a contract with some synth developer out there (like other DAWs) and the developer will make a synth exclusively for Renoise, fully integrated with program’s interface and controls
Yeah that would be cool…

I think Ichiro would permit renoise to make synth1 its first official native synth. If you’d like I’ll ask him in Japanese.

Integrating a synthesizer into Renoise would of course raise the lines of code the developers need to maintain.
But on the other hand, they already integrated quite a lot of DSP code with all the devices. Extended routing
capabilities, a few oscillators and envelopes and you got your modular system. But on the other hand,
wouldn’t it step too far away from the tracker aspects - what about pattern effects, would they work with the
native synth like usual sample based instruments? or would they be similarly limited like VST instruments?

They would certainly work like sample-based instruments. That’s half the reason to have something like this in the first place.

I know it’s a bit unfair of me to say this, because this is the suggestions forum. I know that people want to get the most bang for their buck, and if a synth is your thing then you want a free synth to be included with Renoise.

I just want to really encourage folks to watch KVR and some of those forums for deals on soft synths. I think it’s almost impossible for the Renoise development team to make a synth that could go head to head with some of the best dedicated VST synthesizer plugins.

I guess this is just friendly encouragement to anyone holding out for an internally built synth: if you haven’t checked out any of the pre-existing VST’s I really encourage you to do it. Some of them sound pretty great, and it’s already built and ready to go.

I know the same could be said for things like piano roll (using rewire) but that’s a bit more of a pain in the butt. When I use my VST synths they “feel” native because they load up and work so flawlessly. I don’t know if anyone hanging their hopes on a native synth has maybe held out and not tried some of the popular commercial VST’s. But if you havne’t, I really encourage it. Some of them are pretty great. I really like Massive for example. But there are lots of good ones.

I think they’d do a pretty rad job at making a synth, but more to the point would be that a built-in synth would be built-in. That means tighter integration with pattern commands and workflow with no need for VSTs if you don’t/can’t use them. This is especially handy for sharing xrns files and transferring them between computers and/or OS’s. Heck, it’d be sweet for those of us who use Linux.

That’s why a native synth would be awesome. Not to be a better synth, but to be an integrated, multi-platform synth.

Hmm, but automation works for all the VSTs parameters out there and if you need pattern commands there is “Instrument Automation” effect, is there?

Well… it’s simple when the parameters are named “Osc1Pitch” etc. but sometimes you get something like “knob4”, “slider6”,and about 150+ of them, and finding a simple filter cutoff is too frustrating… too much work setting it up, and less space for creativity. I imagine a built-in synth responding to basic sample commands(vibrato, tremolo, trigger envelope slice (envelope slices would be cool as well!)). No need to make new commands with same action exclusively for the synth. I mean - the vibrato for example would be adjustable within a synth itself and automation but the sample command would do the same (when synth notes are placed on current track, of course).
Many DAWs around here ship with their own synths. The reasons are clear - super stable workflow, portability of a track…
Having synth1 natively in Renoise would be cool, though. Perhaps with a brand new GUI (Renoise-themed). Imagine you could modify the arpeggiator on the fly with pattern commands ;)

What the Renoise team should do is extend the public API so others can build native synth.

I stumbled accross this old renoise release note (version 1.0):

Back then renoise used to have some kind of native synthesizer. Here are some old
threads about the removal:

I don’t think Lua is suited as Language to directly write the audio and DSP functions in.
Even with a JIT, which might speed up some things, it still has a huge function
call overhead and memory management issues (allocating new objects in the audio thread would
never work well).

What I could imagine, would be some kind of programmable modular system
to stitch together your own synthesizer. Where Lua only acts as “description” language
of a synthesizer, rather than calculating the audio samples itself (think of a Lua API to
describe a device chain). Something like csound or puredata just with Lua syntax, but with
less generic functionality and more directed at building fx or synthesizer instruments
(patch management comes to mind, which is highly non-trivial to do in puredata for instance).

Thinking about the development time and resources for something like this it might
be just a wet dream. The time and resources are probably much better placed at workflow
enhancement, and other basic DAW features (like audio tracks). On the other hand, dreaming
further, the average synthesizer doesn’t need much more than a few modules:

  • (bandlimited or oversampling) saw/triangle/sine/pulse oscillator
  • Filter (with hp/lp/bp)
  • LFO
  • ADSR Envelope (possibly more snappy than the current instrument
    envs, with exponential curves for drum synthesis)
  • Mixer
  • Some control-rate number crunchers, to scale input/outputs of the control modules
  • Some knob-modules, to wire in control values, coming in via MIDI or
    settable in the Renoise GUI for the Instrument, savable in presets.
  • (Optional: Being able to reuse all those pretty cool DSPs in a synth would be quite amazing.)

The internal code for the Filter, Instrument Envs and LFO could maybe be reused.
The current filters probably too. Developing a good non-aliasing oscillator
(one that is easy on the CPU without oversampling) is highly non-trivial if one hasn’t already some
experience with it. And all the bigger and smaller details, like writing the Lua API, documentation,
neccessary GUI code, internal restructuring for “integrated native” Instruments and debugging
can easily take up resources of 2-3 programmers for 3 and more months.

Absolutely native synth neded!!! something like synth1, dreamstation, sytrus…

I would personally prefer extended multilayered instruments with sample morphing and note-duplicating meta-devices. No need to have generated (and limited) oscillator when any sample will do the same. Are instrument filter parameters accessible from pattern commands?

Dedicated synths are somewhat disposable nowadays, and those that are not are well outside the definition of something simple. And many of them have started to use samples as oscillators lately.