How To Trancegate Using Track Commands

Help, Support & Bugs
1

Hey guys,

I am contemplating whether I can/should develop a new variant for my RPG phrase generator - one that will be a small “step sequencer” and trancegater.

So, dealing with short instruments (quick attack, quick decay) is easy - I am using the Ex Fx and Dx panning commands to do sub-tick manipulations.

But, when I come to deal with sub tick VOLUME manipulations on non-sample-based instruments, I get stuck.

In addition to the commands mentioned above, is there any additional command or common trick that works on the sub tick level on VSTs? So that I can do a decent trancegate by commands?

I am not looking for use of any meta device or anything other than track commands, since I am generating that XML outside of Renoise.

It is very frustrating to see the “Sample Instruments Only” in the track commands help. I wish more commands were available on VSTs.

2

VST instruments can only respond to MIDI features, which unfortunately doesn’t support a change in volume during note playback. This is true, not only for Renoise, but all DAWs I’ve worked with, so I guess it isn’t possible ‘just like that’.
Using MIDI aftertouch to control volume would hold some promise, but unfortunately it’s not implemented in Renoise yet. On top of that, only a few VST’s support it (see this thread for a discussion)

3

Yes I understand that.
But in the same way that Retrig (Ex) Delay (Dx) and Stop (Fx) work on VSTs, there are some other commands that may work as well, perhaps with a slightly different implementation.

For example, pitch slides (02xx, 03xx) can send pitch bend

Also, specifically when talking about the volume change, the 0cXX commands DO work on VST tracks. So in fact, I am able to create a tracegate using 0cXX on VST pads.

The problem here, that I would love to do it on the sub tick level, since decent trancegate needs to have that extra resolution.

For example, imagine a new panning command Gx:
Gx = Gate Sub Ticks

G3 will do --o--o  
G2 will do -o-o-o

Where o is “volume at 0” and - is “volume back at original”

Also, there can be an Fx command equivalent with more details:
gXYY = Gate Sub Ticks, X=ticks, YY=volume (00-80)

G320 will do the same as G3 above, only the volume down will go to 20 instead of 0

In fact, I now noticed there is that “Volume Slicer” command (04xy) and I am thinking it looks similar only it is for sample instruments only.
I assume it manipulates the sample rather than work on the track-level volume. So why not upgrade this command? Or, if it serves a purpose as it is, perhaps Renoise can add such a command? (volume slicer on the track-level volume)

EDIT:
Another thing - VSTs return their audio output back into Renoise as I understand, so in fact, the result is just like a sample, that was generated “on the fly” - so the same way that track effects (e.g. Reverb) work on that output track, perhaps all the “sample based” commands can work in the same way?

4

No Renoise designer here?
Is there a chance to have a track-volume-level volume slicer in a future version?

5

The a difference between pitch bend and pitch slide is, that pitch bend works with an absolute value, whereas the slide will work with increments. So they are two fundamentally different commands…And it would be hard to make them work the same, since you are often able to specify a custom bend range in VST instruments…in practice, it would mean that 0255 might yield a different result on a VSTi than a sample.

But I’m with you on the whole subject of treating VST’s just like samples, wherever it’s possible. Now, I’m not really into the technical details, but I think that samples are treated individually, before going into the track mix, unlike VST instruments? Of course, that would need to change, before commands like volume slicing could be applied to anything but samples.

Something which is definitely planned for Renoise is increased timing resolution, and with that comes a need for a better way to handle tick based commands. This is going to make it’s way to an upcoming version, but I am not really so well-informed that I can tell you precisely how and when this will happen.

6

Thanks danoise,

Well, making volume changes on VSTs is done easily today with track commands with the track volume command.
All that is left to do, is to add another command that does track volume slicing.
This will work on VSTs.

You are more informed than us mere mortals so thats a start… :)