Thx, but there is a reason why I called it “Enemy Territory”. It’s not really my style or even style I like, it’s my first and probably last try to made something like that. I don’t like atmospheric music without themes/solos/melody so much, I find it boring and not enough varied. But some people liked that type of monotony (in positive meaning) and that’s why I was trying to made something different. And few of my friends who like this style of music ask me to NOT made so many changes - since it’s not what I usually write, I was trying to do my best. After all sometines is good to try something different and make a trip to various styles.
Of course I assumed that you’er commenting my post, because I found that info in my profile icon, but can’t see any information in your post.
@XTD Yes, sorry. I was commenting on your Enemy Territory indeed. I hit the normal reply button instead of replying to you directly, my bad.
Anyway, I hear you! And feel the same about atmospheric music without melodies and themes. I’m sure there is people who like monotony in their music. But I am not one of those. So that sips through into my comments. But to each their own. At any rate, if monotony is part of the style you wanted to write in. I think you hit the nail on the head. And restraining yourself when it goes against your nature to fit in the genre can be a valuable skill, at times.So I think you did well on that. And like you say, it is good to experiment with different styles and ideas from time to time. Even if it only confirms that isn’t for you.
@ffx Improve mix? For what? They sounds good, maybe even too compressed (when I hear compression working, even sidechain, then I assume it’s too much, but it’s only personal taste). Your songs are not aggressive, so imo they’re fine as they are. People focus too much on mix these days and waste lot of time for micro-fixes instead of focusing on composing new songs etc. If these changes in mix will be smaller than differences between amplifiers and speakers people uses, then imo is not worth to work on that.
I’m not talking about anyone specifically here. But I think the weakest point of all of us, here in this thread, is the composition and arrangement.
A good tune will sound good even with a bad mix. And it can get to greatness if the mix is right. But a good mix starts with the arrangement. How much is playing when. And how layered is that.
Part of what makes a good arrangement are the energy levels. And this is where composition comes in. Tension/release, melodies.counter melodies, harmonies and rhythm. Keeping things varied. Even if it is just subtle.
My point being, I think we’d all be better off putting more time in composing rather than mixing.
No, it was Elektro and not Synthwave, you wrote about repeatings in this track.
But you’re right, every electronic music style needs repeatings, sometimes more obvious and sometimes camouflaged by other instruments.
How do you say it in english nowadays? WORD!
It depends. Especially in Synthwave sidechain mostly is intended to be heard.
Absolutely right! And too much mixing and mastering won’t improve the result. Your ears will fool you, too.
That’s why I keep it as simple as possible. I think mixing and mastering is like in the food industry, the more you process the ingredients the worse it gets. Keep it as pure as possible.
@ffx:
I also couldn’t hear a big difference in all of your mixes you posted recently. But if I would have been forced to choose one, I would have chosen A in every case of your 3 cases you posted here. But the differences were too small, I wouldn’t waste more time with this if I were you. Instead I would try to FINISH a song.
I have never heard a finished song of you and obviously you’re still working on the same mixes you was working on 6 to 12 months ago. Right?
Well, I hear a difference, for me it’s about having a scaffolding mix for future synthwave stuff. Since I have like 50 songs which are poorly mixed. And yes, often not finished, but I am a mix-nazi.
On the other hand, you are right, I should focus on composition and sound design, not mixing.
I’m not sure what you mean? When I listen to let me think about it I feel it is all about arrangement & composition. Giving space for the big sounding drums. Those drums and bass are the hook. With the vocals flowing over it.
Composition & arrangement is about making deliberate choices. And those choices can be informed by the instruments / sounds you chose. Having a sparse arrangement like in this track allows the drum & bass to big and up front. Carrying the weight of the tune. Having just a few elements playing at the same time also makes for an easier mix. And allows it to sound big, strong & punchy. It has a few other ideas as well that it keeps returning to. The vocals, and the “trumpets”, for example. And combing them in different ways.
But this is a pretty good example of having a motif, a short musical idea, that repeats over and over without it getting boring. The tune changes often. Taking away instruments. Adding them. Adding accents. Little pieces of ear candy. But it keeps returning to the hook, the motif of the drum & bass.
And it gets fuller towards the end. With the new elements coming in. Listen to how they are arranged in the frequency spectrum. They all playing nicely in a specific frequency range. Not getting in the way of each other. Again, that is arrangement & composition. Choosing which octave the sounds play at. And when they hit.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that the mix is unimportant. And maybe whoever mixed this back in the day muted elements that the composers had playing. Limiting the number of instruments playing simultaneously. But to me that is arrangement. Where I consider mixing to be balancing whatever is playing at that time against each other.
But if you disagree I’d love to hear your point of view.
So what? You know, I have lot of CDs and large number of them sounds not so good (I’m listening lot of metal and not every studio or self-made man can do it proper). For example - you can find on YouTube this song. It sounds awful like whole album, but album itself is great (for me of course and for many thrash metal freaks). And you know what? If I listening whole album, I forget about difference between this sound and better sounding bands, because ears needs only a moment to adjustment. And if I need more trebles and bass or more volume then… guess what… I have AMPLIFIER with knobs. Really! I can magically increase volume just by using volume knob, I can decrease bass, increase trebles - MAGIC! And I don’t made mixes like - one song from this album, one from another etc. I listening whole albums so for me it’s not a problem that one sounds different than other. So if you share yours songs, I can hear them and focus only on composition (and if needed - I can tune it up a little for my personal taste). And that is how people should listening music, not trying to achieve “the same quality and mix like this guy in radio” etc. After few years we will compare our new songs with old ones and for sure new ones will be much better - so what? It’s natural. Learning is long process that everyone must learn by themselves, not by copying one from another. When you listen perfect mix, you also listen to instruments used in that mix, playing style, themes etc. And then people starts making their own songs that sounds the same (includnig instruments, themes etc). Personally I prefer listen to nice amateur tune with bad mix than crappy identical tunes without any sense but with perfect mix.
Mixing is certainly more important in some genres than others, as in more a part of the identity of the piece, but for the most i’d say it is a secondary part of your music. If you have good music, then a good mix can make it shine, but if the music by itself is not interesting then it won’t turn it into a great track just by mixing it better.
The thing that has changed in the last 30 years is the way we listen to music. Most people listen through streaming. And they don’t listen albums anymore. They listen to playlist with various things thrown in. And with that comes loudness normalization. And if you sound bad, or too different than what your music is surrounded by your music gets skipped. So a good mix is more important than it used to be.
That sounds like early 90s, small-time, trashy death metal! The unmistakable sound of a cheap studio, limited equipment, a poor listening environment and no budget to hang around there long. And like you say, it does not matter once you get used to if after a moment. Especially not in the context of a whole album. The music is there.
If you compare it to a band that had more money to spend on their recording in a similar style, like Slayer you can imagine what it could have been like. If there were more experienced engineers involved. But in the past, in the metal genre the quality of the sound was less important. And in my genre of choice, Black Metal, crappy lo-fi recordings were part of the aesthetics.
Anyway, sadly you and I are dinosaurs. Listening to albums, adjusting our sets to fit the music. And yes, I have a large collection of metal cds as well.
So true ! I listen to old darkthrone often, or to paysage d’hiver. The lofi brings a very dark athmosphere. I can’t imagine transsylvanian hunger in “good quality”… it would be much worse I think!
Well, yes, it’s about music, not about mixing.
And your mixes already sound as good as your music. You’re very talented in composing, you should finish your tracks and release them. Your music should be heard! It won’t be heard if you don’t finish your tracks, if you “mess around” with mixes for years (we all now it will never be perfect, there’s always something to complain about) and if you keep being the hidden man, whether here in this forum or on Soundcloud or elsewhere. I really appreciate your contributions and if you’re planning to release an album one day I would like to be the first customer. Your Synthwave stuff is great! And what I’ve heard so far in other styles it’s also cool. Keep 'em coming!
Exactly! You can’t make gold out of shit!
Even “bad” mixes can be sold easily if the music is great, there are millions of examples. The one I would like to mention at this point is Metallica. Their first albums were absolutely bad in terms of mix and master, but we all know that this fact didn’t stop them becoming one of the greatest Metal bands of all time, they’re icons in many ways and not to mention very successful.
