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Id like it if instrument envelopes could control plug in effect parameters. Itd be useful ish with delay/reverb/flange etc but itd also allow us to use 3rd party filters etc with sample instruments in a very integrated way.
Effect slots in instruments might be nice too…

Hey this is actually pretty good an idea, although the headline could be a bit more describing and you should have thought this a little bit further to rise some discussion. Why I like this? Because this woud allow me to control VSTs and MIDI through Instrument Envelopes! YAY!

How this then could be implemented? Well, only possibly sensible solution I can come up with is that there would be channel strip and effect dropdown menus where the destination effect could be selected. I’m right now to lazy to make any fancy Photoshop-illustrations, but you get the idea… ;)

Controlling VSTs and midi through instrument envelopes has been on my mind like ages, and today when thinking about it I realized that it was ultimately stupid compared to what could be achieved if I could control any effect plugin in Renoise with them. Effect-binded instrument envelopes would really free me to do virtually anything with them. Now if they just were velocity-sensitive… :rolleyes:

Yes sorry about that… due to my nasty habit of posting whilst hungover. I just noticed the extra load of numbers and zzzzs on the end… i have two pcs and was using renoise with the wrong keyboard and… well you prob get the idea… :wacko: will take more care in the future.

Those of us who make stuff in 3rd party apps that let you save as vst would get a load of wonderful modular style functionality from this i think so itd be well worthwhile. As you suggest it would need an “add vst env” function with a dropdown to choose which you want. They could pop up in the instrument settings section.

Some power to modulate each breakpoint in an envelope in the pattern editor wouldnt hurt either…

Can i or someone change the heading of this topic?

Yeah, no big deal. Doesn’t bother me, but someone may take this not-so-seriously if there’s some Klingon slang in the topic headline.

Anyway, I’m really not sure what you mean by that “add VST env.” option. I was thinking about controlling VST and MIDI automation devices through instrument envelopes. And since VST effects already can be controlled as Renoise slider box I see (from a coder-idiot point of view) no problem in controlling them as someone could control any effect plugin parameter.

I think there has been some discussion about modulating envelopes with pattern commands, you could try to search and bump some topics. ;) But let’s stay on topic… Of course there could be some confusion in which instrument is controlling which effect if gone very deeply into modulating with those envs, so maybe a solution for that would be needed. All in all this is a very good and flexible idea, but should be used and designed carefully to avoid confusion. Anyway, I’m off to sleep now. My brain ain’t working no more.

But please do an usable and clear design about how this would be when implemented. I would, but as said, my head right now is empty empty empty empty empty empty empty empty

Ok well as im thinking of it it would need instrument effects as well as the current track effects. They could go in the instrument settings bar.
Then next to the envelope buttons that select between volume, pitch, pan, and on the otherside cutoff and res we d have “assignable 1, 2, 3” etc. However many is viable and useful really. Each would need a pull down menu just like in the automation bar detailing each currently loaded instrument effect with each parameter that could be assigned to that envelope. Same goes for the lfos.

Thats the straightforward idea but in an ideal world…

If i could just magic this up id have a number of assignable env/lfos as above on the vol,pitch,pan side to modulate the instrument effects and then on the cut,res side some more which can be assigned to any other vst effect/vsti currently running in renoise. Ie, not just for that instrument but for any track but triggered from that instruments envelope. So every time say, a snare is triggered it could make reverb on a high hat cut out or delay time on a synth slide down to 1ms then back. A bass sound playing could auto dip a bassdrum or vice versa. All sorts of weird effects plus generaly useful ones.
I hardly need to mention how useful itd be with compression.

Dynamically controlled dynamics. :)
Don’t have time to purge any deeper just now, but what if multiple instrument envelopes were assigned to on e effect or would that option had to be disabled altogether?

More than one instrument env to one parameter? I like that idea.
We might as well wig out and come up with weird thoughts on this since its only you and me who seem to like this idea anyway. :(

Well… It’s not that no one cares, but it is not a new idea either :)
In general it’s VERY hard to come up with ideas that is not already mentioned.

About several envelopes/lfo’s etc to control a single parameter. I fully agree.
I also suggested to have a ‘relative’ option on many kinds of devices.
Like on for instance the LFO or velocity device (absolute control now), where you can switch it to different relative controls.(in % or just linear + and - from current set value etc.).

It’ is also ‘planned’/discussed to be able to add devices inside instruments etc. So then there should be no problem to do the tings you have suggested here.

I assumed so but couldnt find any discussions on it. Could you point me to them so i can see whats suggested and maybe give them a bump?
Id like to make some noise about the ways id like to see renoise go … the novelty or lack of novelty of any idea isnt important but its nice to know suggestions are out there :)

I also favour an option for relative rather than absolute control with modulation devices… even as things stand itd be useful but with many different modulation options affecting the same parameter itd be hugely important.

Actually, these topics was mostly discussed internally among the Renoise team.
So I can’t point you to them.

However, soon these big structural ideas (like new instrument structure using devices etc) that have been discussed internally will soon appear on the new Feature Design section of the Forum.

Stay tuned…

And the modulating other parameters (track effects…synths otherwise unrelated to the trigger instrument) with inst envelopes and lfos? Id love to hear anything thats been discussed along those lines.
Itd be like hearing spoilers for tv shows :D yum!

Yeah me too. Whatta heck are we doing here on the ideas & suggestions board when any serious discussion is held in closed forum or even better somewhere behind the curtains among the renoise team. :ph34r:


Coz we are ninjas now…
“A wise warrior learns from his mistakes but a wiser warrior learns from someone else’s.”


Yeah, I’ve suggested this also earlier (cannot find the topic though).

The only problem with this idea is - when we are dealing with envelopes that are sent to FX whenever a note is pressed - what happens when you press more than one keys?

This kind of device cannot function with polyphony so that might be the reason why this has not been implemented. Though it would be cool even if it had limitations :):slight_smile:

Perhaps it would be selectable how the Envelope would sync - Wheter it would start playback when a note is pressed or when the pattern starts etc or start every 1/2 or so.

I think a way to get around this would simply be to allow copying of automation with selection.
Topic here…

Also, we already have the new LFO device that allmost supports this, so maybe that could be tweaked to allow keysync from certain instruments.

"The only problem with this idea is - when we are dealing with envelopes that are sent to FX whenever a note is pressed - what happens when you press more than one keys? "

The same thing that happens if you mash extra keys on a monosynth, miss a fret in a guitar chord or anything of the sort… itll usualy sound crap but might suggest an exciting effect on the odd occasion.
this is a basicly monophonic idea so itd mean an option of retriggering or ignoring new note on commands until a note off had been sent (for flexiability rather than to solve big problems) . This would cover normal use and playing chords.

I dont see that as a limited version since i dont see how polyphony is relevent except in the sense above. Interested to hear more if you mean something ive missed.

[quote="#<0x0000562854fd47d8>, post:14, topic:20541"]

This kind of device cannot function with polyphony so that might be the reason why this has not been implemented.

That kinda polyphony was also discussed ;)

But we where talking about fx inside the instrument itself. There should be no problem to allow full polyphony option when you use Renoise internal fx’s. But if you start using vst as instrument-fx, then there will be limitations (due to the poor nature of vst’s you can end up in deep trouble if you load too many instances of the same vst and start automating them all at once etc).

I do however see some kinda way around that if we have an instrument setting that tell renoise to toggle between pre-made instruments. So each poly-note will trigger the next instrument in the list until last one and start over again. This approach might be safer… (?)

Anyway… The idea is that you can create as many instruments you want as sub instruments inside the main instrument. You can extract one instrument into many. You would also be able to link to instruments outside (like an advanced alias instrument) etc.

You can create/drag/drop pretty much anything (a sample, another instrument, a note-clip or even a pattern) into a key/velocity-mapper to set up how to trigger the different things.

This might not tell you much… As said… I will post more about these ideas later.</0x0000562854fd47d8>

A little teaser for my fellow ninjas.
Here is an old picture. It roughly shows how the instrument structure could be.
You can expand/collapse each instrument in the instrument list to easier see/copy/paste elements inside a instrument.
Envelopes are now added as devices (see at bottom).
You can add devices to single samples, or to the entire instrument, or to a instrument inside the instrument etc.