Is Renoise Selling Out?

I was kind of shocked seeing the new site for ReNoise. The layout and everything is fine…however, the ReNoise crew now abandons the ‘tracker’ description for their software, instead relying on ‘reeling in’ new users with their ‘bottom-up vertical approach to music’ composition. Those who know what a tracker is should know that it’s hard to get someone from the piano-roll community to give trackers a second look, but seriously…does anyone think excluding the term ‘tracker’ will change anything? It seems like the crew is trying to deceive to get more users…is this true? If not, am I crazy thinking this?

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Dude, if you can’t read source code, i question your claim to authenticity…

Let’s get one thing straight. I don’t check source code. If you do that, that’s your thing. I’m going simply by the front page description here.

I’m not claiming ANYTHING either…I’m simply asking a question. The front page suggests something completely different than your quoted metatags. I’m just wondering if the ReNoise crew is trying to buy into an audience they probably (again, not claiming ‘authenticity’ or ‘authoritive’ here) normally wouldn’t be exposed to by repackaging a tracker format in a different light.

You’re not crazy but I definitely think you’re reading way too much into such a simple thing. There are no sinister overtones here, nobody is trying to trick anyone into thinking anything different… at least I personally did not get that impression. It’s just a fresh, new look for the website. Why does it have to say “Renoise is a tracker!” right on the front page anyway? I don’t think it’s necessary at all.

If a person already knows what a tracker is, they will immediately recognise that Renoise is tracker-based simply by looking at the first screenshot. They probably even heard about Renoise from another tracker user, or on another tracker forum, etc., so they know what to expect and they are probably only interested in reading the features list at that point.

If a person doesn’t know what a tracker is, then it’s worthless to say “Renoise is a tracker” because they don’t understand the concept of a “tracker” in the first place. So what difference does it make in that case? It’s better to give a more interesting description of the product and what it’s capable of, rather than possibly boring or confusing people with technical details and a history lesson of Renoise’s tracker roots. When new people visit the website they simply want to know “can this product help me create music”. The text on the website suggests that Renoise can help you to create music, and it has a more unique approach than the other traditional sequencers. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Having said all that, I don’t think we have any reason to be afraid of using the term “tracker” somewhere on the front page of the site. I don’t think it should be hidden just because new users might not understand it, but I don’t feel that it’s necessary to shove it in your face either. I think the more interesting and friendly description should be first, nice and clear for new users to see, then somewhere below that or to side should be some text like “Renoise is a tracker-based music sequencer. Want to learn more about trackers and their history? Click here…”, and then obviously a link to a brief history of what tracking is about.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.


WTF ? “Selling out” ? “Buying into a new audience by deceiving” ? You should really check your paranoia and ask yourself if you would have a huge problem with new users using renoise, paying for it and maybe even take part in the forum. I don’t see the problem, really.

dBlue, you’re always quoting my thoughts these days, you should visit a psychiatrist as soon as possible :P

seriously, what dBlue said is absolutely correct (and evident): there is no bonus for tracker people to read “yes! it’s a tracker!” here and there, and there is no way this could help newbies either.

relax hseiken, there is no secret piano-roll interface coming out in next version :)

because some people might think renoise becomes “rotten” if there is ? I would love to see a piano roll or sequencer-like arranger in any future renoise version…

I only brought this up because I would say that a majority of renoise users used trackers previously…so a ‘fresh top-to-bottom’ view wouldn’t really be…‘fresh’ to someone who’s used one before…right?

If you want piano roll, why not get a program for it, and maybe sync Renoise with it? Apina roll is NOT what Renoise is about and made for! There is sooo many tracker functionality improvements possible even now that something like piano roll should NOT be in even top 20 additions for RNS! Trackers have always been more like instruments than “music production software”. Why to change the concept that makes trackers what they are and people have originally fallen love with? I want Renoise NOT to be any new millennium multidimensional overfeatured do-it-all-with-more-windows-than-you-can-comprehend machine. I want to use it as I use trackers, for gods sake! If I want apinaroll I will get Cubase or Live or anything else, but no,



I think if a pianoroll was added to Renoise it might be in the form of a plugin, so it’s out-of-sight, out-of-mind by the people who don’t like them. If not, then an option in the preferences window to ‘turn it off’.

Renoise 1.8.0 is great, I’ve exported all my MIDI from PT7 for Renoise, the audio work is pretty simple anyway.

Anyone want to buy my copy of PT? :) It’s for sale, really!

Note start.
Note stop.
Draw a line from start to stop.
Whats the big deal?

I’m very much for a piano roll.
Talking about Cubase etc, just because you show some data graphically is just silly.
“lets remove the damn automation window… it’s just too much cubase…”

‘You are either with us or against us’

bah :)

Let’s all just be glad that Renoise is evolving.
You can always stick with old versions if it gets too unbearable ;)

Hey ;)

Like dblue posted before it doesn’t matter if there’s “Tracker” stated out anywhere because tracker-users somehow know that renoise is a tracker. But on the other hand, I think the term “tracker” frightens “professional” users because a tracker is still remembered by most people as the simple and “demo-scenish” minitool which is by far not able to produce studio-quality stuff.

Although everyone knows, Cubase is weird to use (even cubasers say that) but as it has the reputation to be a professional studio solution, it is used in most big studios even if Renoise (if there are enough skills) is able to do anything a cubase could do.

It’s a fact, webspace, development, SSL-keys cost a lot of money - more users mean more money :)

PS: If I am completely wrong with my statements, slap me in irc-channel #renoise

It’s not really obsolute as far as I know, but search engines only use the first few, just don’t stuff it.
Btw. you should stuff all the CSS in a file, search engines ranks text after how high it is on a page, so if you have CSS, scripts or other unimportant stuff infront of your important text it’s not getting as H :eek: GH a score.

I don’t agree with the comparisons to cuebase. There’s several known professional artists out there that employ ReNoise to do their dirty work…why not offer audio examples from these artists (with permission, obviously) and keep the tracker moniker? I think this, more than anything, will break the ‘non-pro’ status that you believe the tracker tag holds within the professional community. I’m sure all that would need to be done is to trim the songs and you may even earn extra income by offering links to their parent record labels (i.e. advertising for both you AND them with you getting money either way).

I don’t think shoving the word tracker under the rug is the answer…it’s education on how far the format’s come.

i dont like this kinda talk.

when you see renoise, there is no confusion. it is a tracker.

an ‘evolved tracker’.
everyone i have ever spoken with about renoise, knows its a tracker.
anyone that would be coming here due to a friend or acquaintance of mine is going to know its a tracker too.

on the rarest of chance a noob comes here on there own accord.
they will probably already have some idea of what renoise is about.

or they wouldnt be coming here.

lets say.

13 years from now in 2020.

renoise become as big as cubase is right now.

will it be because of the music Renoise Users have made, or because of the way the website is designed?




And noone even compared Renoise to Cubase here. It’s just that the word “Cubase” triggers some reactions here in the forums when spoken in the same post than Renoise. ;)

Hail to the Jonas. Let’s get rid of this thread.

Who cares how it’s advertised? It kicks ass. When it ceases to do so, THEN I’ll complain.

That’s how everyone should think about this.