Is Renoise terminated?

Fsus4 · November 16, 2016, 7:24pm

IMHO really a pity, that you guys don’t seem to have the motivation to improve Renoise to reach some common standards most of us here begging for along time. Well ok, trying to accept this. I guess the other thing you mentioned will be some multi fx vst plugin, containing all Renoise fx? If so, will it also contain doofer and meta concepts? Or will Redux get a fx only variant? That would be nice to have when I use another DAW…

Could also be some sort of hybridofRedux and Glitch.

In any case, it’s theirpreferred official policytoNOT get into any specifics about developement issues, precisely because they wish to avoid userspeculations, disappointments and pressure.

We should be happy with that little piece of information we just got from taktik. Nowat least we have it confirmed that they are actually working on SOMETHING. Even if it’s notrelated to Renoise, so what? I think it’s very refreshing that they think outside of Renoise.

I think Renoise has a long way to go. Losing time in other things or products would be the end of Renoise.Any time not invested in Renoise is a negative blow.The reason is the long wait between versions. it is heartbreaking!

No, it’sreality. Remember that Renoise couldget terminated at any time for a lot of valid reasons, such as events in the developers’ personal lives, the need to work harder for a living,whatever.During all these years, Renoise probably has become a beast that’s very difficult andtime consuming to manage codewise. So let’s assume they make lots of $$$ onsomething new and fresh instead,what then holds them back from getting more coders to work on Renoise?How could that be the end for Renoise, huh? A couple of years ago there were actually a handful of programmers working on Renoise, just search for the historyand google the articles/interviews from the music production magazines.

In any case, development should be a joy for the developers, not a burden to carry further nor a call of duty to satisfyabunch of users. If they find joy inbuilding another product or service or whatever, then it’s perfectly fine and we should be glad Renoise got this far.

But if Renoise got terminated, and that’s a big if, then at least I hope they would enablenew routes to advancing Renoise development. For example away to license thecode (or parts of Renoise code)à laUnreal Engine suite.

Raul · November 16, 2016, 8:10pm

No, it’sreality. Remember that Renoise couldget terminated at any time for a lot of valid reasons, such as events in the developers’ personal lives, the need to work harder for a living,whatever.During all these years, Renoise probably has become a beast that’s very difficult andtime consuming to manage codewise. So let’s assume they make lots of $$$ onsomething new and fresh instead,what then holds them back from getting more coders to work on Renoise?How could that be the end for Renoise, huh? A couple of years ago there were actually a handful of programmers working on Renoise, just search for the historyand google the articles/interviews from the music production magazines.

In any case, development should be a joy for the developers, not a burden to carry further nor a call of duty to satisfyabunch of users. If they find joy inbuilding another product or service or whatever, then it’s perfectly fine and we should be glad Renoise got this far.

It seems that you have more desire that the Team of Renoise leaves the boat and is dedicated to something else, that contributes more bills to him.I do not get into the way I work at any time. But this product is Renoise. I prefer that it not be torn apart, but perfected, that it is not yet, and it is very much missing.Do you want more products like Redux or “slices of Renoise”?Then Renoise will never get better (or make it too slow), the years will pass and you and I will carry a cane and glasses with many increases.

Come go!Renoise is very lot of time to update. One year or two each new version/revision or more. They have had time to do Redux. If they had invested more time in Renoise, it would have other better things and more functions.Redux is very well. But I, like many here, want a polished Renoise.Renoise’s Little Team will do what they want.

But turning to other products would be the end of Renoise. It is only necessary that a new one brings more profits to permanently leave aside Renoise.I understand that you can use another DAW, Ableton, FL Studio, etc. But Renoise is also another DAW, better perfecting it than tearing it apart.

Look now. Redux is useless if you use Renoise as your main DAW.Products like Redux or other pieces of Renoise are fine, but when the team is big and can handle it. Now, with Redux, wait until Renoise improves as he should.Wait, and wait!

Note : I did not want to comment, because I did not get into these debates. We can discuss anything, but we will not get anywhere… ^_^Yes, while you can use version 3.1, but here we do not talk about that.Of course, they are only comments. Do not despair for anything. Everything will come. But sit still and calm, with patience… Then, new people enter the forum and ask if Renoise is finished or abandoned.Long time, so valued!

Conner_Bw · November 16, 2016, 9:22pm

Taktik announced a new project in post #22 speculation thread.

f_d_k · November 16, 2016, 10:25pm

Taktik announced a new project in post #22 speculation thread.

Freaking hell, it took me ages to figure out it’s THIS thread! :lol:

Edit: Now is this joke more OO, or more infinite loop?

Fsus4 · November 16, 2016, 10:29pm

It seems that you have more desire that the Team of Renoise leaves the boat and is dedicated to something else, that contributes more bills to him.I do not get into the way I work at any time. But this product is Renoise. I prefer that it not be torn apart, but perfected, that it is not yet, and it is very much missing.Do you want more products like Redux or “slices of Renoise”?Then Renoise will never get better (or make it too slow), the years will pass and you and I will carry a cane and glasses with many increases.

Come go!Renoise is very lot of time to update. One year or two each new version/revision or more. They have had time to do Redux. If they had invested more time in Renoise, it would have other better things and more functions.Redux is very well. But I, like many here, want a polished Renoise.Renoise’s Little Team will do what they want.

But turning to other products would be the end of Renoise. It is only necessary that a new one brings more profits to permanently leave aside Renoise.I understand that you can use another DAW, Ableton, FL Studio, etc. But Renoise is also another DAW, better perfecting it than tearing it apart.

Look now. Redux is useless if you use Renoise as your main DAW.Products like Redux or other pieces of Renoise are fine, but when the team is big and can handle it. Now, with Redux, wait until Renoise improves as he should.Wait, and wait!

Note : I did not want to comment, because I did not get into these debates. We can discuss anything, but we will not get anywhere… ^_^Yes, while you can use version 3.1, but here we do not talk about that.Of course, they are only comments. Do not despair for anything. Everything will come. But sit still and calm, with patience… Then, new people enter the forum and ask if Renoise is finished or abandoned.Long time, so valued!

Well, I don’t see these discussions as “debates.” It’s often refreshing to hear the perspectives of other users,if there are good points toconsider and chew on.Look, we’re all passionate about Renoise. I’ve used this software since 2002 and would certainly feel very sad if taktik someday announced that he didn’t have the time or interestto carry Renoise development any further.

But what then if we get something better instead?See, here is the real issue:most people I know who’re producing music are looking fornew opportunities to enrich their workflow and productivity. So when you get"slices of Renoise", you also gainmorepersonal freedom to experiment with how those slices canwork with a vast range of DAWs and other audio tools. And that’s a real value to quitea lot of people. It’s about the end results, not the means to get there.

I think it’s great that taktik & co are not locked up in 1989, but manages to see new horizons and new users. And new products! So yes. I would rather see some new VST/AU spin-off products like Redux,built uponsome 15+ years of Renoise development, than some small incremental improvements to Renoise that takes years to realize because so much time is required to spend on making all of that 15+ years of code work perfect with every new added function.

gova · November 16, 2016, 10:50pm

Maybe the new thing is Renoise 2, an improved renoise under a different, .05 version licence with large discounts for.1 version number upgades. Full version is 250 EUR.

right now we have 2 years per0.1 version numbers, a renoise licence is for one full version number, a renoise licence lasts 20 years

joule · November 17, 2016, 9:01am

I’m not meaning to flamebait, but I just speak freely here and try to give some thoughts in another direction

The issue seems to be the feeling that Renoise has a lot of potential which in part is not yet realized? However, this is true for most things, and always will be. Perfection is an illusion and users will never be 100% satisfied.

When it comes to realizing potential, I think the API is more potent than most have realized. My feeling is that the Renoise team so far have been much better at realizing potential compared to the user community (core dev+team tools vs user tools+music). You could argue that the team makes money from it, but you could also argue that we’ve already got value for our money and couldn’t demand having feature x and y served on a plate.

The best way for the user community to show love for Renoise is to make good tools or good music. So from a “moral” standpoint, my personal evaluation is that the user community should first focus on shaping up before implying that the devs don’t do enough.

Fsus4 · November 17, 2016, 8:31pm

^^

Well said joule.

Let’s all just learn Lua scripting in Renoise and STFU.

(And let’shope taktik’s new secret project isaboutvideo this time, givenhis experience as lead programmer of Sublime HD)

ffx · November 17, 2016, 8:44pm

^^

Well said joule.

No, not well said, because it’s not about perfection, that misses the topic at all. Nobody expects perfection. It’s about missing standards and the resulting headaches. Something which is not fixable with lua scripting.

Raul · November 17, 2016, 9:13pm

No, not well said, because it’s not about perfection, that misses the topic at all. Nobody expects perfection. It’s about missing standards and the resulting headaches. Something which is not fixable with lua scripting.

Exact!

Finnishcoffee · November 18, 2016, 1:46am

Yes,You can use “Groups” in the Pattern Editor to control endless Tracks at once.You have up to 5 levels of Groups (in Pattern Editor):

“CTRL + T” = insert a Track

“CTRL + G” = insert a Group

Clic central button Mouse = Mute Track/Group

It seems like you have a problem with MIDI routing with your keyboard MIDI. If you make a video it would be great

When recording live, you must select the track related to the “VST instrument” with routed audio.If you play your musical keyboard, Renoise should record notes only on the selected track, not in multiple tracks.

Note: the Groups do not accept notes.I suggest that you master the groups to control types of similar instruments at the same time (volume, gain, mute, solo, etc.)…

The problem is that I can not select more then one track. Therefor I can not do live recording with more then one instrument that way.
I have to use MIDI Routing, and doing so, All VSTi are recorded at all times no matter what I do. MIDI Routing and MUTE/SOLO track does not work together.
With MIDI Routing, ReNoise will always record all instruments on their designated tracks. That is one of the major problems with MIDI Routing and Live Play Recording.

Finnishcoffee · November 18, 2016, 2:01am

hey there, you can also set a specific midi channel to each plugin…then set the sound of that plugin to only be routed through a certain track, this way you dont need to look at the screen when changing instruments, just change the channel on the mid controller…eg midi channel 1 for drums…2 for bass…this is how i do it with renoise and my oxygen8v2…sorry if you know this i didnt see anyone else mention it…

have a look under the plugin tab and midi tab…

That works in some songs. Trick here is that the MIDI Keyboard I use will only transmit MIDI on one channel at the time. So if I want to seperate for example flute and piano this way, it works until I want to play them the same time. Then with the instruments on separate channels, I can’t.

The best sollution for me would be if the volume slider per track (on the Mixer table in ReNoise) would also control the RECORD to that track. I have noticed that when you pull the slider down to lowest, a small “inf” show up where the Decibel number is. Since I control the volumes from my M-Audio sliders, that would be perfect if the zero volume also turned off all recording to that track and stoped sending MIDI notes to the VST that is routed to that track as well.

This is exactly how they do it in for example Studio One - Except that the RECORD button there can’t even be mapped to any MIDI control or even hotkeyd. One of many many reasons I don’t like Studio One.

ReNoise is by far the best program for my needs to date. I have tried so many and always return to ReNoise.

I will make the video some day and try to show and explain what I’m babbling about here. I just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

Finnishcoffee · November 18, 2016, 7:57am

OK - I finally got around to doing the video describing the problem/wishlist with MIDI Routing and recording in ReNoise 3.1

Recomend watching this in highest resolution and fullscreen to see what’s going on.

https://youtu.be/lMe6S-sIgr0

Raul · November 18, 2016, 11:36am

OK - I finally got around to doing the video describing the problem/wishlist with MIDI Routing and recording in ReNoise 3.1

Recomend watching this in highest resolution and fullscreen to see what’s going on.

https://youtu.be/lMe6S-sIgr0

Private video, can not be played!Can you make it public?

Okay, I think I understand what happens to you.And it’s very interesting. As soon as I have time I comment widely.I think it is a limitation of Renoise, but if the software include it in the future, would be magnificent.Just this goes in the line that defends FFX and mylself (missing features to improve / “to perfect” Renoise). I write “to perfect” between quotation marksin case someone becomes philosophical.

However, maybe some tool can separate notes from different instruments inside a track on separate tracks. (once again, Note OFFs are going to be chaos)…Maybe that will help.Someone knows?

danoise · November 18, 2016, 1:30pm

However, maybe some tool can separate notes from different instruments inside a track on separate tracks.Someone knows?

When you specify a track in the MIDI input panel, Renoise essentially records notes into that track. So, on the fly “separation” of notes is actually possible.

But it’s a live-recording feature, will not affect existing notes in patterns - which I guess is what you’re looking for? A kind of note sorting which goes a bit further than Renoise or any current tool that I’m aware of?

But I don’t think it’s what OP is looking for. Seems he’s mostly just looking for more convenient way to create keyboard mappings/splits (although I’m not sure about the velocity thing, it sounds like a weird/funny way to do record-arming for a track).

Nevertheless, a better (alternative) interface design could make it easy to manage these mappings. But I have a feeling that I still don’t understand the larger picture here… so, also waiting for that video to go public

Raul · November 18, 2016, 1:39pm

When you specify a track in the MIDI input panel, Renoise essentially records notes into that track. So, on the fly “separation” of notes is actually possible.

But it’s a live-recording feature, will not affect existing notes in patterns - which I guess is what you’re looking for? A kind of note sorting which goes a bit further than Renoise or any current tool that I’m aware of?

But I don’t think it’s what OP is looking for. Seems he’s mostly just looking for more convenient way to create keyboard mappings/splits (although I’m not sure about the velocity thing, it sounds like a weird/funny way to do record-arming for a track).

Nevertheless, a better (alternative) interface design could make it easy to manage these mappings. But I have a feeling that I still don’t understand the larger picture here… so, also waiting for that video to go public

I have my doubts too, that’s why I reserve my comments.However, this topic interests me a lot.It seems as if he wants to control several instruments and that each track has the notes related to each instrument, separately.Controlling everything from a single MIDI keyboard.Being sincere, the MIDI Routing theme is a bit off my hands, and I’d like to control it as well (change the MIDI channel on my keyboard MIDI and directly control different instruments… or things like that).

AndreyMarchenko · November 18, 2016, 4:01pm

…we’re currently indeed busy with something else which has nothing directly to do with Renoise…

3.1.0 October 9th, 2015

Finnishcoffee · November 19, 2016, 12:41pm

ACK … I’m sorry… I meant to do that video Unlisted (links will open), not private… See if this works better.

Finnishcoffee · November 19, 2016, 12:53pm

I have my doubts too, that’s why I reserve my comments.However, this topic interests me a lot.It seems as if he wants to control several instruments and that each track has the notes related to each instrument, separately.Controlling everything from a single MIDI keyboard.Being sincere, the MIDI Routing theme is a bit off my hands, and I’d like to control it as well (change the MIDI channel on my keyboard MIDI and directly control different instruments… or things like that).

Yep… You have understood it correctly… Instruments are “locked” to certain tracks for the sake of postmixing.
The MIDI controller/keyboard (M-Audio Key61) is indeed controlling just about everything on the fly.
I just can’t make ReNoise stop recording and sending notes (MIDI) on individual tracks.
Something that all other DAW I ever tried has with the “arming” of record ON - OFF, wich in turn does not trigger the instruments, wich does save CPU etc etc… But hopefully the video works now. It’s SO much easier to explain when showing what’s going on.

When you specify a track in the MIDI input panel, Renoise essentially records notes into that track. So, on the fly “separation” of notes is actually possible.

But it’s a live-recording feature, will not affect existing notes in patterns - which I guess is what you’re looking for? A kind of note sorting which goes a bit further than Renoise or any current tool that I’m aware of?

But I don’t think it’s what OP is looking for. Seems he’s mostly just looking for more convenient way to create keyboard mappings/splits (although I’m not sure about the velocity thing, it sounds like a weird/funny way to do record-arming for a track).

Nevertheless, a better (alternative) interface design could make it easy to manage these mappings. But I have a feeling that I still don’t understand the larger picture here… so, also waiting for that video to go public

I have solved the problem with mapings/splits (purchasing the license for 3.1 took care of that)

It’s the recording of select tracks that is a problem

There is a tool for ReNoise that tries to do this. Problem is that it also messes up all the routing. It changes the MIDI channels and track routings around constantly and that negates the whole MIDI Routing advantages. The tool in question I think was called “Midi Control Panel” or something like that. I tried it and it made a mess of everything unfortunately.

Raul · November 20, 2016, 1:14pm

Hi Finnishcoffe. Thanks for this video! Is a pleasure view this.

I understand that you have several instruments VSTi routed through MIDI.Track controls work separately. “Mute” and "Solo"only act on the track selected.And each track is managed independently.The problem is that I do not know if there is any option (a selection box) not to record the instruments that you are not playing, which in turn are routed through MIDI. In other words, perhaps there is no option to temporarily override MIDI commands.

As I understand it, imagine this situation (similar to what you raise):

Instrument VSTi 01, routing MIDI in Track 01: has a MIDI command 01
Instrument VSTi 02, routing MIDI in Track 02: has a MIDI command 02
Instrument VSTi 03, routing MIDI in Track 03: has a MIDI command 03

If you record live with a keyboard MIDI (only a keyboard), you keyboard emits 3 commands MIDI at the same time:01, 02 and 03, for each key.I suppose the problem is that it is not possible to cut the MIDI link of the instruments 02 and 03, so that it only records the 01, when you record live.

I include an image in case it helps to understand the problem:

7057

Should not there be a checkbox somewhere for what you want?

Thanks for your clarifications with the video. I’m learning new things for myself.

I guess Danoise will know exactly what happens. Wait for your explanations…

Note :In the screenshot would be missing add the preferences of Plugin VSTi ( Channel , Midi Routing , Audio Routing ), and also the Meta “Instr. MIDI Control” , for each track down the Pattern Editor. Routing Line Input maybe?