I think this could work nicely. So we hit our magic button, whereupon the currently playing pattern just loops forever until we find our desired next pattern. Once found, as you say, we hit our magic button again and when the current iteration of our old, looping pattern is complete, the desired next pattern begins and ‘song’ play mode (rather than single-pattern loop mode) is resumed.
The way you describe it (if I understand you correctly) would be even more flexible than my original suggestion (a la AHX and Milkytracker) because users wouldn’t have to frantically find a new pattern before the old one expired So for high-pattern-speed projects with shortish patternlengths, your safety net would be the infinite repetition of the ‘last’ pattern.
Another thing that occurred to me is that this feature would also be great for composition in the studio - to try out different patterns next to eachother in a non-permanent way without having to rearrange the sequence and risk mucking things up. This feature would be a swiss-army sequencing knife
Taktik - what do you think? I think the main contributors to this thread are in broad agreement now, and the visual solutions outlined seem to make sense. Is this close to being a specific enough request that it could be considered for inclusion?
I must admit, I didn’t fully understand at first, but I still knew you were on to something good in suggesting this. After trying out Renoise again however, I can see this would be an amazing feature to have, not just for live remixing, but also to experiment with different continuations of the song when composing.
Ah just read this! You spoke my thoughts in a time machine.
Yeah! And now that I just got my new Asus Eee 901 (after having had a 701 for a year), Renoise holds new wonder for me once again as a possible live tool thanks to Taktik’s fantastic netbook screen layout feature.
I see that, and this livemode request, as complementary features that would help ease Renoise into the consciousness of thousands of new netbook owners as their live tool of the future. All the mags are recommending netbooks, and we all know what a great app Renoise is for low CPU-load musicmaking
I’ve been using the same thing on my DS-10. It has a ‘lock’ button that locks the playback to the current pattern until it finishes. The current selected pattern is indicated by a small solid red light, and the playing pattern (if different) is a blinking red light. This is the opposite indication compared to what someone suggested earlier, but I think it works better this way, because the blinking suggests activity, and it can be in time with the tempo by blinking whenever the pattern plays a highlighted line.
I think I’m on the same page here. I’ve been twiddling around with the dblue Glitch and something called InstaJungle, but they seem to be “do it for you” VSTs and that’s not really what I’m after.
I also find the Beat Repeater patches in Ableton to be lacking in, lets say, depth.
Also, Novation Automap with this “live Pattern change” feature would be amazing.
Live or apec (asynchronous play edit cursor ), we have to think about the dependencies of the play/edit cursor, like f.i. the sliders of the DSP modules. What are they indicating when playing a different pattern than the currently viewing/editing one?
…Or is this discussion about having a queue-able pattern only?
Knetter - I think whether we discuss the GUI-cohesion issues or the pattern queueing depends on what we can reasonably expect to actually be developed and when.
I think there are two ideological camps when it comes to feature requests for Renoise - and I should say I’m firmly in both of them. One advocates adjustments that would have great immediate benefit - typically minor tweaks or controllable options; perhaps adaptations of extant behaviour. The other engages in lengthy (and very productive!) discourse on more fundamental improvements to Renoise on the wider, more conceptual level, as a DAW.
I’m not suggesting that users are split between these categories - I think most people operate in both - but I think people don different ‘hats’ when discussing certain issues. The former way of thinking is what I wanted to invoke in this thread: this is a feature request made and supported by jobbing musicians who can see, just out of reach, a hugely liberating live tool that they could pick up and use at a live show in, say, five minutes’ time if it were to magically appear right now
The latter, as I said, involves an essential but more protracted and less urgent process of analysis, feedback polling, idea-sharing, etc. Basically, I’d love this feature to pop into existence in one of the simplified forms outlined so far, thus fulfilling the requirements of the former, but then developed in the long term according to the principles of the latter. I don’t think the two processes are mutually exclusive, and I think the live pattern-switching techniques proposed could be built upon incrementally rather than having to be scrapped in order that the system can become more complex in the future.
So Knetter: I think you’re absolutely right to bring up those concerns, and I think they should form the basis of a discussion I really look forward to…once we’ve got the most basic ‘live’ pattern-switching functionality in place. Then Renoise can go from being the best studio-based tool to the best studio+live tool by a small margin…all the way to being the best studio+live tool by a HUGE margin! If I never have to run Ableton again in my life, I’ll be happy.
Way to go. Ask the right questions, and everybody gets smarter. Now, I’ve always imagined that the DSP section is locked to the current pattern - which would mean, the one currently being edited. Otherwise, right-clicking a DSP slider in order to record some automation data would be totally confusing, as the data could end up in another part of the song…
Renoise definitely benefit from these discussions, yes. And at the same time, I think development is also considering whether a given feature is minor (like this one), and not a more fundamental change/improvement. The latter kind tends to turn up in feature votes, btw.
Yes, having a good discussion is always helping determining better requirements.
As I see it, we have a kind of a 3-step rocket…
phase 1: Allow us to switch patterns live with help of a queue command (mouse click & hold, whatever).
phase 2: Peek in other patterns during playback.
phase 3: Edit in other patterns during playback.
I think there is a ascending grade of complexity in these phases. For any discussion of phase 2 and 3, see this topic.
Hey there. From the point of view of a newcomer, making the transition from hardware sampler/sequencer (electribe) to software, I admit that I’ve been very confused by the default behaviour of pattern selection/playback/edit/whatever thingy.
The live mode described here would be a great improvement.
I’m so desperate for some sort of useful live pattern-switching functionality that it actually hurts. It actually hurts me. Pain! I’m surrounded by really cool MIDI controllers, knobs, sliders, transport blocks, midi-slaved visualisation sketches in Processing, live vocal DSP plugins, the very best sequencer/DAW in the world and…nothing to tie it all together.
Having Renoise in front of me in the studio and then having to gig live with Ableton is like…I dunno, like training to be an astronaut in a Shuttle simulator and then discovering that I have to go into space in a Trabant with a jet engine strapped to the roof.
But you’ve heard my woes and desperation far too much over the last three pages/6 months, and now I’m reduced to a pathetic sort of beggary So, developers: can you give any clue as to whether this feature, or a feature like it, is being considered? I appreciate that you don’t like mentioning time-frames, or risking raising expectations that can’t be met, or any of the other good reasons for using discretion when discussing new versions/features, but I’d love to know whether I am (/we are) pissing in the wind, in hoping for this slight modification to replay behaviour.
And of course, I love Renoise no less. I still teach it at the University where I work; I still install the demo on all studio machines; I still recommend it to everyone I meet; I still do all of my non-Amiga/etc work in it…but I still can’t use it for a true live performance
Kudos to you. Seriously. I love the way there’s someone who at least thinks there’s ‘another way’ to compose than just sequencing / using a piano roll. No one had even heard of a tracker when I was at uni, let alone used one, let alone taught using them.
Oh yeah +1 to the thread idea again (2nd time I’ve voted too
So for high-pattern-speed projects with shortish patternlengths, your safety net would be the infinite repetition of the ‘last’ pattern.
So, developers: can you give any clue as to whether this feature, or a feature like it, is being considered? I appreciate that you don’t like mentioning time-frames, or risking raising expectations that can’t be met, or any of the other good reasons for using discretion when discussing new versions/features, but I’d love to know whether I am (/we are) pissing in the wind, in hoping for this slight modification to replay behaviour.
please 