I really like all these sensible responses
one thing I disagree with though is formulating using drugs as opening up. It’s a bit of a semantic discussion, but people who don’t want to use drugs are not more close-minded than people who do use drugs. Also, people relying on drugs for creativity are generally a little boring and samey and take themselves too seriously, in an odd way.
vV: I generally don’t enjoy hanging around people in a different level of inebriation to me. I can’t really relate to what they think is fun at that moment. Hanging around a bunch of stoned people doesn’t sound like fun. It gets a little funny when they start making an ass of themselves though. Also, when enebriated with whatever substance, I can only really relate to people on the same substance.
That’s a bit of a generalization, not all people live badly with drugs. Some people learn to take them in a natural recreational way…living life, even successfully. IMO weak or fragile mental states (and that’s NOT a negative comment, Kaneel even mentioned why he didn’t take them…its fair enough.) are the kind of minds that cant deal with drugs.
The body learns to create certain drugs for itself; serotonin, adrenaline etc to help with certain situations. We have always had these chemicals in us…our tolerance is high and its natural to us, we know how to cope with it. The brain is merely a machine which can be stimulated, and adding drugs is beyond it for some people.
Most drugs are used by medical science in some way or another…ketamin even being used to treat depression, marijuana commonly known for its painkilling effects. It’s a psychological thing. Pro Plus is basically a baby ecstasy.
Its some peoples belief that drugs were more or less the cause of the birth of self conscious thought and religion too…and you can understand why…Acid for example, opens the eyes to stereotypes, social interaction and thought in general…
It’s history is that, certain bread would become toxic at certain times of the year, and entire villages where the bread was sold, would “trip”
If you’ve been on acid, you can understand, this would almost definitely feel like a religious experience…
A scientist learn’t of this and decided to isolate the chemical, viola LSD.
In my experience, it’s people who have taken drugs and experienced the deep mental analyzing, whom i have the best conversations with. Unfortunately, it also works that, some of the aforementioned experimenters also find it hard to talk.
Really, its not worth saying drug users are “boring” or wasting their potential though. I know too many people who take drugs regularly and are cleverer than most people who don’t…
That said, i sometimes think ignorance (unconciousness, life without a drug mind, free) would be bliss…
There are clever people and people that have a bit inferior mind to those. The comparance does still not justify the damage drugs can do… the only correct reply i have to this kind of rubbish expressions:
Long live Herman Brood!
If you don’t know who he was: A dutch rocker who used drugs throughout his whole life and artist career and lived until the age of 51. Not because drugs killed him, but he committed suicide by jumping off the roof of the Hilton in Amsterdam mainly because his body was fully wasted… His conscious was still okay and clever he was. Yeah he knew how to party, but he also had to toss around a burden that was a lot less funny than you think.
I will quote his reaction on the question what he would say to his daughter if she would follow her father’s path (or he would find out she does) in using drugs:
“I would remove her just as fast from this world as i have put her on it and she knows very damn well i would”
It is easy to say those words while you feel great, but first live that kind of life and then come back 30 years later and tell me if you still think the same.
For all we know, we have one single life. For the morepart it’s up to us to fill it with experiences, be it good or bad.
If you’re curious about this, by all means try it. If you think you’d rather avoid it, don’t do it. It may sound simplistic but it’s what it boils down to, at least for me. At the end of my life I want to be able to look back at it all with as little regret as possible.
Personally, I haven’t tried anything else than alcohol/cannabis.
vV: I don’t understand your point in quoting Herman Brood. He’s an interesting fellow, I enjoyed watching interviews with him, but is art&music never really grabbed me. He was a shy kid yeah? And then he started using speed to open himself up. But you’re quoting him because he’s anti-drugs?
Moss: the problem I have with lots of drugs is that it tends to make people rather self-righteous. It becomes expressively bad in the squat scene Lots of people mentally masturbating to the idea that they’re not bourgeouisie, when infact they still have pretty narrow lives, but with lots of drugs in it. But this is also a bit of my self-righteousnous speaking.
Fair enough i agree with you on that, but that’s not what i meant…i meant in a mechanical sense, clever people and “inferior” minds can both be destroyed or as i was saying, take it and remain stable. But it takes a chemical tolerance, a healthy balanced head to be able to do that…
The same way some people get acne and some don’t, you either have the right body/mind for it, or you don’t.
IMexperience, I’d rather think so much.
I actually have a bunch of friends who are squatters in Central London, they are neither narrow minded, nor think they are bourgeouise (even though they are, 10 of them, living in a multi million pound mansion…for free).
They take drugs and drink, but they are very productive/proactive, running festivals in the mansion to teach people things.
Generalizations, like that, shouldnt be made.
Why only focus on the quote? that was not the core moral of the context.
I was reflecting Herman Brood his life against what Moss was saying, nothing more.
I just personally try to understand why would it be so interesting to use drugs in general.
For each reason given to justify using drugs on a regular basis, i can so far still find great examples that reflect the opposite which also means i’m not convinced for the use of hard- and softdrugs on a regular basis.
Give me an example of someone who used drugs successfully throughout his/her whole life without getting sacked for it or experiencing other nasty consequences from it if not mentally or physically by drugs itself.
It’s only cos your ADMIN, your not supposed to condone drugs incase some younger renoise users enter and their parents complain.
I’ll bet your actually a heroin fiend.
But vV, do you respect Herman Brood’s life? Wouldn’t you like to take the plunge like he did? See where you end up.
Moss: yeah I know, it’s not fair of me. I just see lots of young stupid kids going to those parties taking drugs, thinking their being free and clever by taking drugs. But I guess I went down that road as well, albeit in a modest way
john lennon maybe. or keith richards.
aphex twin? boards of canada? I don’t know enough about their lives to say.
Maybe the guys from New Order, I think they did a lot of drugs
Who’s to say they weren’t brilliant before taking drugs? I propose that geniuses are just prone to recreational drug use due to the fact that they have a hard time dealing with life. I also propose that they may indeed accomplish more if they stay away from certain recreational drugs.
If you truly think that those who don’t do drugs are ignorant, I feel sorry for you.
After spending a trillion tax dollars and making 39 million arrests for nonviolent drug offenses, drugs are now generally cheaper, more potent and easier for our children to access than they were 40 years ago at the beginning of the “drug war.”
Ignorant is a broad term, but i wasn’t coining it negatively, i suppose i should have said naive…i meant someone who had no hard drug experience…dont feel sorry for me for saying that!
In the end it’s just the fear of the unknown that holds people back.
Those who cross that line and try something new carry the responsibility
for how they deal with the experience: rinse and repeat or treasure
the moment in memory. Whatever floats your boat. Everybody knows
examples of people who couldn’t carry the responsibility. Those who
did carry the responsibility effortlessly don’t have a reason to shout
about how awesome drugs are, unless they’re asked.
The discussion became pretty pointless. Do your homework and decide
whether you want to try it or not. Asking people’s opinion can help you
make a decision, but base your homework on the facts, not the internet.
It is a personal choice, if excruciating pains force you to commit suicide, i consider it brave of him to choose for a way out that did not involved drugs, which is at least the most painless way. There are a lot of contributions Herman made to the public that deserve respect including his music…
I only pity the many interviews he gave while he was under influence, but i guess that probably belonged to a big part of who he liked to be or pretended to be.
Indeed. The war on drugs is nothing but an excuse for the various governments involved to oppress people.
It has “accomplished” quite a bit though:
It’s given organized crime a reason to exist. Thanks guys!
It allows the government to occupy foreign soil with a military presence for no good reason other than “we want to”
Do you have issues with the government? Do you do recreational drugs? Great, that’s exactly what they wanted! Now, not only have they managed to throw your credibility out the window, but you’re also at risk of being incarcerated!
It’s made street drugs more dangerous. Do you have any idea what’s in that meth you’re taking? Nope… neither do we!
It’s created a lot of even more dangerous unorganized crime to go along with the organized crime it supports. You see, the organized crime rings need people to push their drugs in the streets, as this job is the most dangerous and risky… and what a better bunch of expendables than heavily armed thugs from the ghetto?
As a result of the above statement and more, it’s destroyed the public education systems in most countries. No longer can you send your children to public school without running the risk of them getting shot, getting stabbed, or smoking a crack-laced joint. If you don’t think crack dealers sell crack-laced-weed to get people hooked on their product, think again! Crack is cheap!
As a result of the above statement, it’s made children all over the planet dumber. Even if they don’t do drugs, their brains have still become collateral damage in the drug war.
The war on drugs has legitimatized Alcohol, a very damaging and addictive drug, as “safe” and socially acceptable. This has lead to all sorts of shit… stupidity… violence… impotence… addiction… a rising international healthcare cost. Not to mention Rednecks.
It makes people who don’t do drugs out of choice look like asshat government sympathizers shakes fist
It makes the rebellious feel like they need to do drugs (see my 3rd point)
I could keep going. I hope this serves as some proof that those who are “anti-drug” (what does that even mean?) aren’t entirely brainless.
REALLY???
