Mid/Side Meta Device

I propose the addition of a new meta-device. This would be a Mid/Side device and very simply have the option of working in one of two modes. Stereo -> M/S or M/S -> Stereo.

Now to make this so that it is really of any use I further suggest an additional mode is added to every native DSP in Renoise’s tool-kit. Split-Stereo/Dual-Mono mode. Basically it will change the DSP from being a stereo device with shared controls between the two channels to being a pair of mono devices each with their own settings and controls. This would be available all the time, not only on a M/S chain, although it will really come into its own when processing M/S signals. Obviously it will make the device take up twice the space in the DSP section (and Automation) where channel 1 would be Left or Mid and Channel 2 would be Right or Side signals.

I know it is already possible to set something similar yourself but it requires at least 4 send tracks and a handful of Gainers and Stereo Expanders to accomplish (if my memory serves correct.)

a mid/side meta device would be nice to have,and as mentioned would help cutting down on the need for multi-sendtracks,gainers and expanders

On its own it’s pretty useless without the way to be able to process both the Mid and Side separately thus the inclusion of the new mode of working for DSPs, which I haven’t seen suggested (at least alongside M/S) before. Well I guess it’s not but you would still need to use 2 send tracks with Stereo Expander to separate the signal to process and then more to recombine them so a M/S device on its own really does almost nothing.

@kazakore: Out of curiosity, can you give a few examples of how you would actually use this functionality, how you would process sound with it, what makes this method so unique or desirable, etc?

Quite surprised to see you ask that after starting the thread about native mid/side processing (although it was in response to another thread.)

Plenty you can do, mainly for enhancing or adding effects to the stereo image while keeping the mono signal unchanged. Although I do admit it’s an area I currently generally ignore a bit more than I maybe should.

Would also like split effects anyway for things like different phaser settings of left and right channels ;)

Always good to play a bit of devil’s advocate once in a while :)

I just thought it would be interesting to demonstrate what this type of processing is useful for, in case anyone reading this does not understand it very clearly.

I do admit that I have a general understanding of what the process does and roughly how it works (enough to pick it apart and recreate it in Renoise), but I personally haven’t done much experimentation with it. I’ve also never really seen/heard any concrete examples of where this process can really shine, like some before/after audio demos that make it really obvious.

Do you think you could make a couple of audio demos, perhaps?

I know it’s most often used in the mastering stage but I’m quite interested it trying to use it to properly manage sounds in the higher registers to get some interesting effects and see what can really be got out of it. Setting up the handful of Sends and umpteen DSPs to do this for each track you may want to experiment with is a total headache though.

Can find loads of tutorials but thought there would be a few demos already online, as there are a few mastering effects that use it. May have a quick play and see what I can do though…

For sure.

Have you tried the free MSED plugin by Voxengo?

Pretty simple to use and can handle both encoding and decoding. Might save you a few headaches anyway.


Been trying to migrate to Linux recently but hadn’t used it when I was strictly a Windows user either. I know there are a few around though. Doesn’t MDA do one as well?

Was more a thought that just came to me. Not sure how much I’d use it, except maybe in the “wrong” ways trying to mess with sounds and maybe the occasional experiment on Master if I feel a track could do with some more stereo presence.

Not sure how would be best way to do examples to show that it can’t easily be done with normal effect (beyond EQ and Compression which are both quite subtle anyway.) Especially as a lot of Renoise’s effects have a stereo output so you’re not getting true M/S representation by using them. Need a loop with at least reasonable stereo imaging to start…

Mid/side would be great for mastering with native effects… applying slightly different EQ curves to the mid and side channels can have a dramatic stereo enhancing effect. It would also be nice to use this on synths with effects like distortion and chorus to keep the mid channel dry and solid, and have the side channels nasty as hell.

Especially for basses, where if you get anti-phase bass (quite possible with a lot of the funkier effects) you get serious issues if you ever want to master for vinyl.

Im sure this has intresting effect on stonerhead pads:-) If kazakore wants it…then so do I.