Multi-composer-track

[Mekkah]

1 multi-sampled piano?? (may be pretty large…? I have a 4mb one and a 27mb one :-))

Yep!! Even if a 27 Mb piano would obviously better, we should use the 4 Mb one (due the usual problems with the samplepack filesize)…
I mean, if there is somebody with a dial up connection, he would take too much time to download the samplepack, and he would spend too much money (if in your countries is like in Italy: here if you have a dial up you pay according to the time you stay connected…)--------

And then another question… I still didn’t understand it: composing turns or not?? Read my reply on the top of the 3rd page of this topic…

[P.T]

@ Giles

Sounds nice, if you ask me we could do so as you said with samplepack-builtup.
Ah yes… how´s the work on your server going?? I guess we´re nearly (well I hope so) the end of the planning-phase.

@ Bantai

Jupp, I think we should also be able to add some selfmade synthsounds or so to the pack then. But I guess we shouldn´t force the others also to do so.
We should leave it here to the participant if he wants to add stuff from a sample-cd or whatever.

@ Mekkah

While every composing-turn (as example if you are composing now) you´re allowed to add additionally 1-2mb samples to song if you want. (but you mustn´t)

About the piano-split. Guess also that 27MB are “a bit” to much

Another thing about the samples. I guess we should also some encoding-rules for them. Maybe something like this:

• *.ogg compressed (thats for sure I think)
• Bitrate: Qualitysetting 4 (128kbps) should do the job
• I suggest no changing bitrate. dunno if Renoise encodes those probably anyway (ummm… developers???)
• Stereo and Mono-seperation could decide every artiust.

[phonkey]

Hmm… if it’s not too late I’d like to be part of this experiment aswell.

Haven’t been on the net much these last couple of months so I completely missed this multi-coop-thing, but it sounds very interesting.

My config:
AMD 2200MHz 512Mb

My connection:
56k (might be a problem… dunno)

[RichardM]

My connection:
56k (might be a problem… dunno)

It’s not really going to be a problem downloading the samples but the uploading even worries myself and I have a 256K upstream.

[P.T]

heya!

this discussion will never end it seems. all are good ideas, but if we are to actually start making this tune, one person has to take responsibilty and lay down the rules for how things are to be done and how samples will be added etc…

i suggest it-alien does this, coz he knows some shit

xerxes

A lot of people and time are going to be involved in this. If we don’t want to regret rash decisions at a later time, a planning phase like this is crucial.
We’re already about to finish this phase anyway, so if you please could show some patience I would be grateful.

As for that suggestion of yours, giving one persion the responsibility is ridiculous. We’re in this together. The rules have been discussed together, we’re creating the samplepack together and the song is created together.

We’ll maintain that.

I completly second that. Such a big collaboration needs also such a discussion. If everybody would do what he want we could also cancel all this, because this project would lose its point.

Working together rulez.

• Drop the atmospherical sound; it’s too big to put a generic sample in the file, while it’s not even sure the first few people will use it. In the basic soundpack, only add the most elemental and useful samples.

Yes, sounds right. Agree
Better every composer adds (“if he want to do so”) fx-samples or something else at his composing-turn ?

• Connections: uploading a 56 megabyte file with a 56 kilobit per second connection takes 8000 seconds = about 2 hours. You can probably live with that. Besides that, we have yet to see if the file will reaches that size.

Yes, this is problem! There some people who still have to pay while beeing online. Maybe we should try to set those peoples with a slow connection at the first parts when we decide the composing-turns?? Guess this would be a cheaper solution for everyone.

• Sample CDs are OK, in case they are copyright free, as said before. On a side note, the result of people using their own made samples, samples from commercial sample CDs or other sources may limit the final distribution file available to the public to being closed source due to licensing. Closed source in this context means that you cannot extract the samples from the distributable. However, since the end result file will probably be big, it will be rendered and converted to .ogg anyway.

Yup, sounds cool Even that I don´t have a problem to spread my own-made samples around

About the sample compression: Let´s do it that way then I guess. Much more easier if everyone decides himself how he compresses. Agree.

[P.T]

Now let´s do a little summary of the rules for the overview (correct me if I missed something or something is still unclear):

---

• complete lenght of the song: will be democraticly decided by the group (i.e. if everyone finished his turn)
• maximum duration per turn: 5 minutes
• final mix composes every artist first and then it will decided by the group which final we choose (maybe abusing a poll)
• song-title will be decided by the group
• The song-starter should provide a textfile where he mentioned changes / added effects etc. and then every participant “must” fill in also what he did and changed in his piece.
• You can add many effects as you want execept following:
  reverb;delay;EQ10;StereoExpander;
  These mentioned effects are going through send-tracks and send-devices
• NO VST/VSTI (but you may record them and add them to the samplepackage or add them while our turn)
• No edits on the mastertrack until the final-mix/release
• NO MIDI
• You should avoid to push up the cpu-level til 100%
• Minor edits to the last pattern of the composer are allowed because of the fading/blending.
• Samples: Samples will be added together to a samplepack. Also every participant is allowed to add samples while it´s his turn.
  You have to provide the samples OGG compressed.

---

Guess these are major things to remember

Involved Artists at the moment:
Mekkah; Bantai; Giles Constant; Bibby (<-- went offline atm. we should set him a bit later in the turns-order);iLL79; It-Alien; Dufey; Sagosen; Premium.Trance; Andy:Ray; RichardM;

and since Xerxes (partypooper eh?) and Phonkey want to be involved too, I say we should leave it to that amount of creative minds. 13 composers are more than enough in my opinion.

Some little announcements: Please all offer your eMail-Address now.

The webhosting is in progess and will look following:

Giles Constant is working on a up-/download-system (password protected)
and he hosts the files during our work. (Including the samplepack??? huh didn´t asked yet… Giles??? )

Promotional Website is provided by me and will make the finished song available then. A pre-page with… erm… no content atm. is already up. Let me know what think.

http://www.ptrance.de/renoise

so I got here some questions I want to ask you all first:

• Do you want your eMail-accounts listed on the contacts-page???
• How about a little prelisten-area. Like song in progress??? (weekly maybe?)
• If want or hate something let me know it!

---

Still some open questions:

About the samplepack: How big definatly now??? I´m for (since Mekkah´s request) 20 - 30 MB. Better 30 than 20 then . 2,3mb - 2,4mb per participant.

Sample-adds per turn: How big??? I think 1mb could be enough.

Status: nearly prepared

[P.T]

Registration
I suggest submitting registration info to P.T, so that he can publish a list with names and additional info on the website. P.T, if e-mail adresses are going to be shown on the site, please encode them in java to avoid spambots. I can show you the ‘code’ - only a couple of lines that pastes the divided pieces of each e-mail addy together - if you need it.

Yeah, gimme that code. I hate java.

coz I can´t program it

[RichardM]

Some little announcements: Please all offer your eMail-Address now.

Use this one: rm.mymail@ntlworld.com

[Mekkah]

There’s another problem we still didn’t fix: the “amount” of tracked song we leave to the next composer. I wrote about it at the beginning of this thread…

If I had to compose from minute 40th, I should have to listen to previous 39 minutes, because I can’t skip patterns (I could miss automations, FX bypass and such other important stuff). So I suggest to send the complete rns or a mp3 file to the site, so the next composer knows exactly how the song goes on, and last 10-15 patterns (or maybe only the “last turn” part) to next composer, so he can start tracking without waiting 40 minutes…

What do you think??

---

[P.T]

Don’t post your e-mail address on this forum unless you like spam. And who doesn’t?

Instead, if P.T will encode his e-mail address using the code I’m about to post, I suggest again, send your info to him. If that’s ok with you P.T.

Place this code in your body at the appropriate place. Replace variable strings to match the e-mail address and user. I’ve taken RichardM’s e-mail as example.

  
<script language="javascript" type="text/JavaScript"> <br />
 <!-- <br />
 var username = "rm.mymail"; <br />
 var hostname = "ntlworld.com"; <br />
 document.write('<a href="' + "mail" + "to:" +username + "@" + hostname + '">' + "E-mail RichardM</a>");<br />
 //--> <br />
 </script>  
  

Just copy the code and replace the items for every user. It’s not very efficient, I know, but it’s the easiest way for now. At least you can make for example a table this way and put the code in every cell along with additional info.

I will survive that if the people send their info to me… I guess

Thanx for the code and description.

I guess to keep my overview I will give you my old addy (no spam-problems and I remove it anyway in the future)

so please mail all info to:

stcc@mangaka.com

There’s another problem we still didn’t fix: the “amount” of tracked song we leave to the next composer. I wrote about it at the beginning of this thread…

If I had to compose from minute 40th, I should have to listen to previous 39 minutes, because I can’t skip patterns (I could miss automations, FX bypass and such other important stuff). So I suggest to send the complete rns or a mp3 file to the site, so the next composer knows exactly how the song goes on, and last 10-15 patterns (or maybe only the “last turn” part) to next composer, so he can start tracking without waiting 40 minutes…

What do you think??

Now you have to tell me how you get the cutted-part to the whole source
Guess this is impossible or missed I something?. But sure we can use additionally an OGG or MP3 file for global listening I guess.
I suggest to avoid a envelope-overun and bypass-chaos at every turn the artist should set his effects-variables in the “pattern” on every “Track” at the “start” and the “end” of his turn. I think this should be at least avoid such a thing.

edit

doesn´t this forum support html right??? wanted to add my mail-link but … only saw the complete line. hmph

[P.T]

Channels

Yes, we should divide them, but how? At least we don´t know how much tracks we really have to abuse atm.
Do you mean a fixed number of channels??

Mails
Noted

Samplerate

No problem for. Luckily my crappy SB 4.1 is able to play at 48000hz but not above.

(sigh I could also use my ISIS but I only get ASIO running with a latency of 557ms and directsound runs a hell of slow.
hmph P.T needs new equipment )

Another thing about the website:

Bantai and Andy:Ray already sended some information to me.
Now there´s coming up my bad: We didn´t decided what information we want yet

Yep guess this is my fault I better ask before than do.

Since Andy:Ray gave very good details about him I was thinking about that:

On the Website there could be a section with detailed infos about the artist including this:

• handle
• real name
• age
• country
• gear

as additional info (not for the website but for me and Giles Constant) you could give some details about your connection you have. u.a up- and downloadrate and for special things your e-mail attachment-maximum (in case something happens with the upload-server.)

Waddaya think???

Yeah another embrassing thing of me:

I guess you realized that my english isn´t thaaattt good. I could use some help with the spelling-faults free and then hopefully clear content of the website.

Not much written atm but here you can see the startuptext I´m working on:

Be greeted our friend! Good to see that you made it to the home of the very first longtrack-project built up by the Renoise-Community.

What will you expect here? Move on with reading.
This project is about to get some very long music together with many creative minds involved.

I´m also about to remove the download-area and set the place for the download-link directly to the startpage.

errr… that´s it I guess

stcc@mangaka.com <— send your registration-details right there!

[P.T]

page updated:

http://www.ptrance.de/renoise

now including a silly welcome/be patient-text and a vague rulez-framework.
If you see a little relationship with a post in here then it could be that I used Giles Contant´s categorisation as template

edit

any suggestions about the website-name (easy to change)?? I don´t want to leave it at Renoise´s brandname.

[P.T]

About channels:

• You can always insert new ones so we don’t have to fix a number.

• Dedicate each channel to a specific kind of sound.

• Keep in mind that someone has to master the song. This requires rendering the channels seperately.
  On the one hand a large number of seperate channel can become chaotic for the trackers when poorly executed. It also needs more attention and time from those who are going to master.
  On the other hand dividing the sounds in characteristics can yield much better results. And in the end tracking will be much more transparent.

• The people who are going to master the song should be able to process the channels. I don’t know how it’s going to be done, but count on it that fx plugins will be used. It’s probably easier for the trackers to create a drum track using only one channel, but it’s better to put bassdrums on one channel, hihats on another, etc. so that each channel can be handled individually.
  In fact, you could even distinguish between types of bassdrums and create a “punchy channel” and a “808-type channel”.

Channels

Ok we could do so I think.

Mastering

I suggest that only one person should master the final-release then. The one with the biggest mastering-knowledge I think.

---

P.T needs peoples details. Remember!

handle; real name; age; country; equipment; internet-connectivity; mail-attachment-size!

I still need data from:

• Mekkah
• Dufey
• RichardM
• Xerxes
• Giles Constant
• bibby
• iLL79
• It-Alien
• Sagosen
• Phonkey

mailto: stcc@mangaka.com

[dufey]

Hi, PT.

My hotmail had problems sending an E-mail to you, so I’m giving you my info here instead, if you don’t mind

handle;

real name; Jørn Dufey
age; 20
country; Norway
equipment; P2, 550 mhz, 128 mbRam, Renoise 1.281
internet-connectivity; Cable
mail-attachment-size; Hotmail… meaning… 1mb?

[Mekkah]

I suggest to avoid a envelope-overun and bypass-chaos at every turn the artist should set his effects-variables in the “pattern” on every “Track” at the “start” and the “end” of his turn. I think this should be at least avoid such a thing.

I didn’t think about it… Ok!!

What do you mean with “handle”??

---

[It-Alien]

I could reach your email address for some reason (User unknown)

• It-Alien

• Fabio Napodano

• 26

• Italy

• P3 733 with 592 MB RAM, Terratec EWX24/96, ADSL

[P.T]

My hotmail had problems sending an E-mail to you, so I’m giving you my info here instead, if you don’t mind smile.gif

strange…

I could reach your email address for some reason (User unknown)

very strange

ok… anyways I just setted up a information/allround-contact-account for us.

http://www.ptrance.de/renoise → (<— btw. page is updated again)

if you fail to send your mail to stcc@mangaka.com then try the above mentioned addy.

@It-Alien and Dufey please also try there again. I need you eMail-addresses.

[dufey]

wants password and username.

my e.mail, by the way, is

censored

Cheers, nice page!!!

[RichardM]

Hey nice site man…I’ve sent my email and added you to my mail server whitelist.

I just read this bit:

10. Use intelligent track names, and try to re-use as many existing tracks as possible.

(http://www.ptrance.de/renoise/html/rules2.html)

I think that we should use our initials when we add one so we know who they belong to, like this:

“[RM]Sharp Lead”

or

“RM: Bass Loop 2”

[P.T]

wants password and username.

normally your main-emailclient should show up then…

ah well, got your account, I would suggest that you should go to re-edit your post and remove it again or do you want to have additionally mails out from Nigeria or do you need special enlargement pills ?

---

Let´s get back to the main discussion:

There are some things I´m still not sure about (also for publishing)

-Every artist has 1 or 2 turns???

-Time for adding your contribution. Somewhere was said 3 days but do we want this timeline really??? Also not sure.

-Generic samplepack (AGAIN )
How big definatly??? And how much stuff may every competitior add to it? (30, 20, 10 MB??? say!)

I´m sorry to bring up the stone-age stuff again but while writing/pasting the rules I falled over these things.

@RichardM

Guess we should do it with he track-names like bantai and giles already said. Let´s target the sound as name I think.