But this is NOT the argument and never was.
Tell me now: what is the goal for using Buzz in Renoise? It is the MACHINES!!! Who wrote these machines? People who developed for Buzz the FREE program. Granted, maybe they should not have seeing the terms of the license from the very start. But they do not have a crystal ball. This was done in good faith. Right?
So what gives you the right to use a Buzz machine in Renoise? Oskari’s terms. Fine! So, Oskari created a monopoly based on someone else’s work. How come a machine dev can not create a commercial machine? Think about it! How fair is it?!?
Oskari is a prick, but this is not the argument. He should have changed the terms LONG AGO. Allow machine devs to have the rights to their machines. But he is a prick. He would not do it. So what do you do? Trash him! Do not give him the time of the day. Tell him to take his monopoly somewhere else and shove it up his arse.
I was wondering, what have you paid for the VSTi license?
Buzz is not that great, if this gets anymore out in the swamp, then just drop it, and say sorry to the 13 users that actually wanted it.
The thing is that the API has been free to develop for even since the start. It has also been 100% free to use most of the the plugins, and the softaware that take advantage of the plugins has also been 100% free to use. The plugin-developers have made their plugins with this knowledge, that everything shall be free, no other people shall earn any money on their behalf.
And the thing is that it still can be kept free (if you don’t count in FL), renoise can have buzz-support in the free version and everything will be kept free, but the thing is that the creator of the API, not the plugin-developers, now demand money for every sold license of any 3rd party software that support the API, and because of that renoise can not add buzz-support in their totaly free version but be forced to charge money for this feature, and that will ofcorse be very unfair to the plugin-developers because they want their plugins to be used with free softeware and do not want other people to charge money for something… The thing is the the Buzz-support in Renoise will be only about supporting the plugins, not to support a new developing-API for renosie, cause whatever you think, noone will ever use renoise instead of buzz as the developer-platform for new buzz-machines, they will still use Buzz to do this… but the users of renoise that will use the support will only do it to be able to access buzzmachines, not to access the API in itself, and therefor if any money shall be charged for this support they shall go to the developers of the plugins, but they do not want money, so therefor it shall be kept free or not supported at all…
To charge money for a special renoise-version will only put bad light on renosie, cause it will look like it is the Renoise Team that earn money on the Buzz-Support, and that doesn’t look very nice, when you can use it for free in another software
I’m not defending Oskari here. I just want to make music and if I can get lots of instruments and effects pretty cheap that’s nice. I don’t care too much that someones makes a few “unearned” bucks out of it. It’s business…
If machine developers don’t want this I guess there’s no choice but to drop it.
The thing is that we had a “Add Buzz support in separate Buzz-enabled Renoise license (I wouldn’t pay extra for it)”, and that alternative did just get 3 votes… Plus it seems like it is already more that 12 people in this forum that say ABSOLUTLY NO to buzz support… so…
The situation isn’t as black and white as you describe. This whole question isn’t about how high priority different features shall have… This isn’t about “shall we add support now or later”, this is a much more moral question, and it has to do with the respect to other people and I think it is pretty ignorant to just run over the plugin-developers, the person who has made the software you actually want to use…
The VST SDK is totaly free, and it is totaly free to develop hosts and plugins for VST/VSTi’s
From STEINBERG VST PLUGINS SDK LICENSING AGREEMENT:
"§ 4 Fees and Royalties
The Licensee shall not obligated to pay to Steinberg any fees or royalties with respect to the VST PlugIn Interface technology."
This count both for plugins and hosts…the way it shall be… 
So you skip it because of a person you dont like ? Cant really get that point. Well, seems that we should concentrate on our own API now …
OK, people, this made too much negative reactions. We drop the whole thing and we’ll make our own plug-in format. Let’s all pretend that none of this happened.
I must say I’m amazed by number of reactions within one-day only! 
Thank you renoise team to be sensible enough to just drop this whole idea. With Buzz-support I’m afraid Renoise would have got “enemies” and “dislikers”, without Buzz-support you will only get a very limited number of disappointed users that do not understand the feelings of the plugin-developers… I think the last choise is the most preferable…
We do not need any fights so I think it was a very reasonable choise to just draw a line over all this…
This is a good one here. But I’ll not answer you and I’ll not ‘demonstrate’ here why I managed to be the most anoying person toward you. Because you know why anyway! And because I do respect the people here - Renoise developers, Renoise users, and others who posted in this thread like Yannick and MVA and Zephod. So I’ll drop it!
Posting anonymously and just saying that things are ‘crap’ does not make you look good, dude…
Yes, I agree with MVA. There are many problematic machines. But there are many many excellent ones. Buzz is a great program. No way around this.
I use MadTracker, BUZZ and Renoise! These programs stand out.
My ‘axis of evil’ ! Although I will not declare any war 
In order not to repeat the mistakes of the past, I think an API should protect the rights of Renoise developers AND those who wish to make plugins/fx/ins using this API.
So, Renoise devs, for example, retain the rights to the use of their API in other applications; and Renoise machine devs retain the rights to their machines developed with such an API. And everyone can be happy then.
my 2 pennies worth on this 
that post was made by real Oskari because I got it by mail too.
We don’t make any judgements how much it is charged for certain format. If VSTi was charged for and we needed it we would pay for it, that is not the issue.
I propose the following:
Let’s list out the most popular/favorite Buzz machines (generators/effects) and we’ll see what we can do about it to support these…
So maybe we can arrange possible port for Renoise API like Yannick suggests (Yannick you should really re-consider merging our programs/coding
And as lunar says: it is true that our own API could protect our own rights as well as potential Renoise plugin developers.
Let’s not forget that the most important thing here are not formats, software or plug-ins themselves but the people that developed all of these and they can do a port as well.
Again, we always like to see solution suggestions, not problems!
It seems like a fair solution to everyone to drop Buzz support and see if any machine developers like to port their plugins to a future Renoise API. I hope everyone feels this an ok solution. At least I do If anyone dislikes this think about the much more extensive support and features a Renoise API can offer!
Phazze:
Why do anything to protect your own API and developers? That has not been the issue here, more like the other way around. As long as you don’t have a problem with other apps using the API and freeware plug-in developers don’t mind having their plug-ins run in other programs using your API I don’t see the problem. Future Renoise plug-ins can still be freeware, shareware or commersial ones, like VST, right?
To prevent this from happening again, what seems logical to me is to include a clause in the Renoise agreement that you (Renoise developers) are not allowed to charge for the API if it’s ever used in other programs.
Onx sulla oskari noussu kusi vinttii? Mee helvettiin ja vie buzz mukanas.
Please write your opinions in english !!! 
Shouldn’t the news page be updated? Will give people false expectations 
Ok, I realy thought this was someone making a bad joke, but now we now such a silly and immature person this Oskari realy is. And I can’t even get why people want to have anything to do with anything related to this wet wimp.
If you do your own API I suggest you write a license-agreement both for plug-in developers and host developers right from the beginning so everyone will know the deal. I also suggest you make it totaly free to develop both hosts and plugins for the API (at least as long the plugin or host is not commercial), another suggestion is that you also shall allow commercial hosts and plugins… If you start to vharge money for your API it will NEVER grow strong, so make it as free and open as possible…
a renoise-only version doesn’t sound as good as a FREE API-version…
Hey! You have obvously missed the whole discussion, havn’t you? The thing is not about how many people who want to pay for and use this feature, the thing is about that the developers who made the buzz-machines don’t want anyone to pay to use their machines, and even if you are ready to pay, the money goes to the worng person, the developer of buzz and NOT to the machines that you are going to use. The money you pay will go directly down into mr Oskaris pocket, and even if you think that is okay that will be unfair to the machine-developers whatever you say…
hello all !
While i am quite sad that this Buzz machine deal went down to the flush, ( and the childish behaviour is not only Oskari’s…)
I am happy about the new acknoledge on API ( and yes ask to buzz machines developer!!)
and i m drooling looking at this post:
"So maybe we can arrange possible port for Renoise API like Yannick suggests (Yannick you should really re-consider merging our programs/coding "
and while i dont want only ONE tracker ( monopoly does sux, doesnt it?)
id like to see a much more integration among them!!
( id also add Skale 
rotello
ps i dont believe there is NOT a buzz machine loader VST!!!