I’m a recent ReNoise user, and after years composing in Impulse Tracker, I finnaly found a program that offers huge new composing possibilites. Congratulations for the ReNoise makers, keep up the awesome work!
Now, I want to suggest something I really miss on tracker-like programs: the ability of adding polyrhythms. I don’t know if it’s possibile, but I had an idea of adding a “track-inside polyrhythm”.
First, we must create a “polyrhythm tool”, where the user can select the desired rows (lines) on the desired place of the pattern. For example: If we want to make 3 rows in the place of 4, select the 4 lines inside the track, apply the “polyrhythm tool” and insert the number 3, so it would look like the attached figure here (see the second track, that uses 3 lines instead 4 on the first track. Sorry, I couldn’t upload it to another server).
For better graphical compatibility, I suggest you to make only “diminished polyrhythms” (make only polyrhythms with a minor number of lines, for example: 3 in place of 4, 5 in place of 6, 7 in the place of 10 and so on. Not 4 in place of 3, for example, because extracting lines from a track is much more graphically easier than adding one
I got what you’re talking about, specially that triplets into ReNoise. But, with the actual system, we can set a different speed for each track? If yes, now we could have polyrhythms in ReNoise, and I didn’t have noticed. Polyrhythms are a bit more complex than triplets. Also a graphical change (for example, in a set of 4 rows, if we could delete one row in ONE track only, distributing the lines in a way that the 3rd line from the deleted row track would play in the same beat as the 4th line of the other tracks, it would also sound as a triplet.
Thanks for the tip, I’ll check out the ways we can make triplets. Btw, I would like to let my suggestion here.
PS: does someone check the JPG I let in Rapidshare? That pic says for itself.
you cannot set different speeds for each track. the solution in these cases is to set the speed to the least common divisor of the two speeds you want to set or, if it is 1, to the minimum value between the two.
I understand that you are looking for a more immediate solution, but honeslty your “polyrhitm tool” doe not seem like one to me.
Daniel, everything is possible right now, but you have to put some thought and work into it.
The easiest way for me it to work with synced (looped) samples and keeping track where you place the instruments in the pattern editor.
For example on speed 6, 64 pattern length:
have a 4/4 rhythm track with a bar repeating every 16 steps,
have another track in 3/4 with the single bar beat repeating every 12 steps,
have another track in 5/4 with the bar repeating every 20 steps,
have another track in 7/4 with the bar repeating every 28 steps
If you sync the (drum)samples in the instr settings accordingly to the time signatures and/or place the (snapped)loop markers intelligently, interesting results can be obtained
especially when you play around with the 101/202 pitch shifting pattern commands on the different tracks.
I doubt the pic says enough (better use something like tinypic.com instead, easier for us to get the stuff). You could say it like this though:
[embed]width=425 height=344 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/jiHfWMq7uLs&hl=en&fs=1[/embed]
Making “fake polyrhythms” altering the tempo is a tricky thing that works even on old trackers, but the function I imaginated would be very useful and won’t need any tempo change. It was like making two tracks playing with their first tempo together, but with a different number of rows. This could make triplets, 5 in 4, 7 in 8, 5 in 7 and so on. Well, let’s wait for it… the programmers who make ReNoise are regularly online here? I hope so.
Anyway, it’s just a suggestion to make things easier. It would also add better support for ReNoise to importi Midi files because they don’t use tempo changes to make tuplets, just “broken time variables” such as 1,33333… (=4/3).
hello - i’m gwok, greetings to all. I been workin with renoise the past month - (RULES!), and i’ve read up on the polyrhythm thing, and have seen some ideas\solutions. one thing i would like to say, is that a really good example of a polyrhythm tool exists in Nuendo. Not to compare apps here or something like that - but it is very very powerful. you can make any beat division and place it on any beat division.
so for example - say you wanted to play a quater note 7tuplet - not problem - but then say you wanted that quarter note 7tuplet to start on the 4th beat of an 8th note quintuplet - again no problem, - i’m totally lovin renoise, and have only praise, though if anyone interested in this topic has a chance check out the nuendo\cubase quantize setup - it’s so simple yet powerful.
because of the way it’s designed you can do polyrhythms inside polyrhythms, inside polyrhythms - etc etc etc, does that make sense? sure does!
joking aside, maybe that’s not so useful to most people, but i think it would rock. something along those line that i think would also be super cool, is a metric modulation calculator. that way you could say "hey, i wanna make every 4 notes of my eighth note quintuplet the new quarter note, hence speeding up the song - now this is all doable with a calculator, the thing is, you get bpm’s that end up being "not whole’ ie 123.24 bpm, or something. so at this point though doable with a tempo mod, it’s not quite accurate, and to me actually audibly so.
i just got into renoise and am enthralled, so know i speak out of total enthusiasm, though polyrhythms(simple and compound) combined with accurate metric modulation - would just be sick beyond belief…
on a side note, the only number divisble by 2-9 is 2520, which unless i’m mistaken would have to be the pattern length, if you wanted all that at your fingertips (i do), not to mention if you wanted to throw a 13 overtop of that - ouch, maybe sounds very convoluted, which is why i mention the nuendo quantize, cause it really is quite simple - though i recognize it’s a different style of program and may not be so simple to implement in renoise - anyway - that’s a hell of a 1st post - no complaints here though - lovin renoise and much respect to the makers and users - pc out - g
maybe so (it alien), seems like that would probably work - though to be honest i don;t think that way would allow for compound polyrhythms - though i could be wrong on that - i;m also seeing that 2.0 has the different tick/LPB scene which pretty much makes simple polyrhythms possible (i think) though not very intuitively, still, seems like it can be done - still i push for the metric modulation calculator, which may seem somewhat arbitrary, though i think would be off the hook - pc out
The puzzle described seems to be why SPEED needs to make a comeback.
You see, SPEED is the number of ticks before the cursor advances to the next line during playback. If I know that my sixteenth notes last six ticks, my quarters last 24, so eighth note triplets last 8 ticks. Use pattern delay to make that happen.
true true - it’s just there’s so much more then triplets. to me it seems that if polyrhythms are going to be incorporated, why go only partway. even 5 and 7tuplets is still just the start. that’s why i mention the nuendo quantize setup as an example - i swear you can put 13 over 17 on the 6th note of a quarter on 7tuplet in like 2 seconds. seriously, i know maybe it’s like who cares about that or somethin - but that is so powerful in terms of expression.
and yes it does seem like ticks has the ability to pull some of that off, but only within the confines of the divisions that it’s been set at. i only push the point because i think the ability to do rediculousy complex rhythms in renoise, not only would be awesome(!!!), but opens the door to making music that is totally out of this world, and (hopefully) incredibly expressive. now i admit, maybe some of my examples are kinda rediculous, but compositionally, if that potential was there, it would be off the hook. Zappa and Stravinsky ate that stuff for breakfast, so it’s not just math, it 's about awesome music. maybe i’m rambling, truly though - just thinkin for the team - ya ya - pc out - g
In the long run, what Renoise needs, and will eventually get, is a way to work with “clips” - a.k.a. re-usable content.
I’ve suggested a simple way to get it working (part of the zoomable editor feature proposal), which would, for instance, allow you to create an 6-note long sequence, and have it playing next to an 8-note sequence (3/4 & 4/4 polyrhytmic figure)
What is beautiful about the 2.0 release - which have happened since I wrote the feature proposal - is that the new delay parameter makes it much easier to work with rhythmic material. IMHO we don’t need different speeds for each element in the song anymore. We DO need better squash and stretch tools, however!
i agree, squash and stretch would definatly expand things a lot in that area, though it doesn’t address starting rhythmic figures on odd times. so yes i agree - you could take five notes and stretch them across the bar and have a 5tuplet, though off the top of my head, i don’t see how you could get that 5tuplet on say - the 6th note of a 7tuplet - or something like that… zoomable editor looks totally sick btw…i agree though 4 sure squash and stretch are a great start…that’s when the “metric modualtion calculator” would be sweet, cause then you could modulate the whole song to the exact tempo of whatever you just stretched - YA! - lol - had to get that in there - right on - g