Pricing Model change to fund future development

Dear community,
we all love Renoise as one of the most forward thinking tracker projects of this day and age.
The developers have proven for years to still listen to customers wishes years after that development was profitable.
I know we all love that, as opposed to industry standard (music) software, Renoise has an extremely consumer friendly payment model: You purchase the upgrades for one full version of upgrades. No monthly/yearly subscription costs.
But here is the issue.
Bear in mind that the last time you had to pay for the most recent upgrade, was if you purchesd renoise in version 2.5
That came out in 2010!

The reality is, even if you have been using renoise for years, there really is no other way to help further the renoise development.
Of course you can support the project by non monetary ways, for example by programming tools or releasing doofer/Instrument Packs in Forums but this isn’t gonna suddenly generate a whole bunch of money to pay for a programmers wage.

I started this thread as means to gather and discuss community opinions on how open we would be to different pricing models. While that would cost us more money, this would enable renoise to stay at the cutting edge of music production technology. Maybe all the developers need is a nod by their fan base, giving the GO to try and monetize us so that they can further revive the development of Renoise.

What do you think? What are some ideas to generate money? Subscription or Patreon? How much can you pay? How about a donation Call-to-action every once in a while?

Let’s try figuring out how we can direct money towards this lovely program and it’s community :slight_smile:

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I don’t think money is the problem, but simply time. I 'm willing to spend more money if the latter is the case though.

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if the project was more profitable, they would be able to dedicate more time and resources or hire programmers to do that

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Taktik recently mentioned that this is difficult / impossible.

maybe the developers could also state under what circumstances it would be

I get that the code base is kinda dated and that only a few people that have interacted with it for years would be able to update it. that means renoise future isn’t as a well maintained open source community project (for example under the surge XT umbrella).
that just makes it even more important to somehow motivate some of those selected few long term developers to dedicate their time and energy.
they have other jobs and projects that they are working on (like sononym) plus family life’s and just the need to put their energy into something that also supports them. not just work almost for free (plus of course for our appreciation)

and even a well maintained open source software project needs to cover development costs.
take for instance ardour:
you can compile the code yourself no matter what platform. that is quite easy on Linux and easily done with the distributions package manager. on windows and MacOS not so easy. so you can basically set up a donation, that gives you access to the most recent compiled program.
at the same time Harrison is heavily invested in the development if ardour, as they use it as a code base to program their analog style interface on top. That’s basically already giving some of the developers a full time stable income.

it’s really not so easy though to come up with a model that keeps renoises spirit as an affordable tool for a niche audience

Do whatever it takes to keep this awesome program alive and kicking. I’m here for it!!
IMG_1862

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im probably in the minority here, i came to renoise pretty late. i see it as a pretty complete and mature software. beyond keeping up with whatever standards there are (vst3 for example) if there would be anything i’d request, it’d be features & capabilities for the API for the tool developers. i sometimes feel in the current era users of software/hardware feel like they should be included in the development process via ideas and such. “community” and all that. while i think this is really cool, i also think the developers having a vision and working to achieve that vision is really cool. the tool system renoise uses is a perfect balance (imho) of the developers sticking to the vision they have and the community adding bits and pieces. i feel ableton fell off in this regard as it started off pretty specialized but over time started including what the users wanted. at this point the software is a completely different beast than the original vision. renoise is pretty specialized and i think that is a large part of its appeal for those that get over the learning curve when it comes to trackers. i would hate to see this software get bloated with a bunch of features that arent aligned with the vision/philosophy of the developers for the intent of pleasing users who dont want to use multiple programs. as of today, renoise is a badass tracker that seems pretty complete. i’m fine with that, provided the developers are doing ok. if they were hurting or reaching out for funding, it would be a whole other topic.

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Let’s try figuring out how we can direct money towards this lovely program and it’s community

Could buy Sononym, very useful, helps find ‘similar sounds’, and can be inspirational, and more!

I 1000% agree with the idea of tool development being a prime way to involve the community and not bloat the software from its core concept. Renoise is a light and efficient TRACKER, that’s the standard, anything else that an individual wants is up to them.

I’m a tool junkie myself, but I’m all for donating or even changing how updates are handled. This is more about taking care of the developers and making sure they feel appreciated, compensated, and motivated for making such a great product and to continue to do so.

That being said I wouldn’t mind paying for each update, times were a lot different back then, even though I had no idea renoise even existed, music software was marketed and understood differently than in todays age

So once again….
IMG_1863

Subscription is a big NO-NO, it’s only fair if after you pay during the subscription period the sum of the full price of the product, it becomes fully yours

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i agree here on this point definitely. it would be nice to help them out in that regard.i just wonder, for a 20+ year old software, what type of further development they could do that tools cant already do that would justify funds coming in that the developers arent even asking for.

(ill tell ya, sample start point modulation :crazy_face:)

i guess i see the heart within the motive but in a world where everyone is asking for subscribers, patreons, etc, from what i’ve read, none of the renoise team have alluded to needing any sort of assistance in that area for what they’ve been doing. that is actually part of the appeal for me. i guess at the end of the day for me, since the devs havent been trying to up the funding, i assume for a project this age, they’ve got that side figured out and they’ve got updates figured out.

so basically what im saying is lets see a marketplace for doofers more or less.

i hate the subscription model with a passion. im “ok” with the fee per upgrade model. i just cant get behind buying a tool and having it revoked after a certain period. plus if we’re going min/max on life and budget, a bunch of nickel and dime subscriptions, depending on your income, is gonna eventually put you in a position where you decide what subscriptions are must have and which you can pass on. if we’re in a world where a subscription to one or two services handles all the above, great. netflix, hulu, all that, monthly fee makes sense. supporting app developers via subscription has all the right intentions, but i dont think its the way to go. once you get too deep and assess your budget, decisions are going to be made and developers are going to lose out if they’re anything less than the best, especially smaller ones, whereas a one time fee could benefit a side hustle and developers dont risk being the “lesser tool” and getting passed on. if everyone adapted a subscription model, i would only use 5-10 pieces of sw due to not wanting to pay $150+ a month to keep the programs on my computer enabled.

What about a rewrite in Rust (all the kidz are doin’ it)? What about an iPadOS version? Right now I use Renoise because it supports VST2 (I still use Microtonic with Pocket Operators).
These are some whys for paying for Renoise.
I think the Subscribe to own model isn’t a bad one. It satisfies those of meager earnings and those that need to own a product. Make a system that after 12 months of payment (even if not consecutive) you own that version? Then maybe a flat upgrade price?
This way people can have a working version if they need it, pay the minimum amount to use it, and programmers can get paid?
It’s not perfect, but it’s better than watching this die.

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Since we’re in the mood for terrible ideas, here are some free ones for the devs:

  • Get 1 Renoise Credit (RC) for every 12 hours spent in the program. Buy these with real monies ($5 = 1 credit).
  • Spend these credits to insert VST plugins and 3rd party samples; increase the number of max instruments allowed in projects; render audio; etc.
  • All themes will be random drops (chests), which will be opened using the credits system. Themes will all be randomly generated by the way, so good luck.
  • Mandatory Epic Games and Renoise account link. No Steam, though. Exclusivity!
  • Get access to updates in advance by purchasing the yearly Deluxe edition (extra $40), which is just Renoise with a blue icon and a .zip with AI generated samples.
  • Internet connection required all the time to keep credits in sync.
  • Only one instance of Renoise allowed per license. Buy a new license to open another one.

Feel free to add more terrible ideas for the devs!

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Now that you have had time to fling poo, do you have any ideas that would actually work to benefit all parties involved since you ignored the most basic rule posted (provide something constructive)?

This is a dumb thread with made up, fake, premises.
The OP claming money has anything to do with the release schedule, is pure insanity.
Renoise is fine, no major bugs, no roadblocks to achieving a tracker work-flow; move along…

But, again, if you want to support, and already own Renoise; buy Sononym.

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