Real Sidechaining


(EnergyCrush) #81

<last edit : Living up to my name here, i just demonstrated my problem to a friend and it worked, very clicky but i was getting something, then i turned off “use static processing buffers” and suddenly everything’s fine! If anyone else has similar problems to me, the solution is tick and untick everything and then show your friend how it doesn’t work

Lol…every time.

Glad you got it working. Have been so slammed at work lately it’s taking me days or weeks to respond to tons of personal email.


(somemoron) #82

Actually, other than for about 10 minutes I never did get this working - I just mailed them requesting a refund as their support dude has given up and I can’t think of much else to try myself. It’s super annoying since I bought MMorph and can’t use it

Is there anything else similar to Metaplugin anyone can recommend?

Please add me to the list of people asking for sidechain support in Renoise!


(EnergyCrush) #83

However, it doesn’t seem to work with Izotope Neutron unfortunately. Anyone else have this problem?

Curious if you’ve played with this more. I seem to be able to use Neutron either directly or within Metaplugin, but was having trouble where the drop-down in the Masking feature wouldn’t show any other instances of Neutron. What I figured out was that if the option to run plugins in their own sandbox is on, Neutron (and likely other plugins) can’t see each other. While DDMF Metaplugin enables side-chaining functionality between VST3 plugins, hosted plugins like Neutron are still impacted by that setting, which is…irritating.

I’m in the process of trying to use Metaplugin for Neutron, as I discovered that when running Neutron in Reason 9.5, the CPU is completely overwhelmed with 2 or more instances. Digging around, it seems other people have noticed that Neutron seems to be much less CPU intensive when run as a VST3 plugin, and Metaplugin makes this possible in both Renoise and Reason, both being only VST2 capable at present. The hokery involved in connecting it all this way is phenomenal, not in a good way.

Staggering thought for the day: It’s going to be a seriously telling day when, given the context of history, Propellerheads implements VST3 support in Reason before Renoise developers make it happen. Chew on that for a while.


(whitewolfmusic) #84

In general, Renoise could use more flexible / powerful routing capabilities, along with an easy way to do them. That would be one of my feature requests, too. Split signals, route them into certain VST plugins like compressors, etc.


(Sweeppah) #85

+1 for this


(The Empty Self) #86

hi interesting post i use to think the same as you …but ive noticed that producers every day are using more ducking (basically what we made in renoise signal follower+hydra+gainer)

to kinda illustrate my point …producer Matt Lange its hosting a podcast called tam tempo…

one of the 1st episodes guests Calix&Teebee MatZo 12th Planet and Photek

specifically talk about sidechain compression and the way they approach to it

the podcast also cover a lot of good material …regarding producing aspects… :slight_smile:

heres the link

http://taptempo.libsyn.com/tap-tempo-001-producers-round-table-feat-calyx-teebee-mat-zo-12th-planet-photek


(EnergyCrush) #87

hi interesting post i use to think the same as you …but ive noticed that producers every day are using more ducking (basically what we made in renoise signal follower+hydra+gainer)

I can totally appreciate what you are saying. It’s awesome to have that path, and it probably solves the issue for several Renoise users. I love that Renoise has built-in several core effects, as well as extensible utilities that in many ways goes beyond other DAWs. It’s noted on several respectable ‘top x plugins’ lists that the best place to start for entry level musicians are the often very decent tools already built in to your DAW. This got me off the ground for years, when Renoise was literally the only thing I could afford.

Now I rely on the functionality built into VST plug-ins because I need my core toolset to work everywhere. I depend on my plugin developers to keep relatively up to date, and I depend on my DAW developers to do the same. Tracking is how I cut my teeth and how I prefer to write, and at the end of the day, Renoise is and has been the only serious option for modern Trackers. This is where I feel responsibility lies, and where I feel Renoise has actually failed myself and others. This is where pride in my conversations telling other musicians how I write ends, and why I haven’t convinced anyone else to pick it up now in years. It will die, and that means ultimately the hardcore users lose as well.

If Renoise developers honestly don’t believe they can or will make it a priority in their lives again, then I’d ask them please to open source it, before someone else actually does eat their…OUR…lunch. Strong as the community is here, the amazing investments users have made, it’s a shoe-in for active development.

But that’s only true if Renoise devs open up the chest and share the key. I get it, it’s unlikely, but this is honesty, not politics.


(speedraver) #88

Does anyone have a solution for this meanwhile? Metaplugin + SendIt = high CPU usage, no matter what I am trying, it is impossible to get it working. I want to use a frequency based ducking plugin (MSpectralDynamics) that NEEDS side-chaining for that to work at all. Given that the “Metaplugin+ its SendIt plugin” solution is not really working, I was wondering if anyone has found another way? In any case, I need to be able to use 2 tracks within Renoise for that (kick / bass-synth), so it is not a solution to use 2 instruments within oneMetaplugin instance (which works fine of course for plugins like MMorph).

Thanks a lot guys :slight_smile:


(ffx) #89

AFAIK it only has insane cpu usage if you do not match the correct send channel. Have a more accurate eye on the numbers.


(speedraver) #90

They are matched, I am not completely dumb as I´ve been using rather complex VST setups since the end of the 90´s (previously DirectX plugins) :slight_smile: I´ve even tried to go through different ones from 1 to 16 (always matched up in Metaplugin / SendIt), still the same. I can make a video if you do not believe me. It simply isn´t working, unfortunately. CPU always sky-rockets when trying to play (and especially afterward). If it works for you just fine, it would be great if you could make a video showing that, so that I can double check everything else I might be doing wrong, but the channel numbers are 100% matched.


(ffx) #91

Hm, is the sender to the left/top from the receiver on the mixer view?


(speedraver) #92

@ffx: I´ve found the issue, I was running all plugins sandboxed for stability reasons on big projects, but that prevented SendIt from working at all (just saw that was mentioned earlier in this thread already). Now that I´ve disabled that option, it works just fine!

Everyone who didn´t try that yet, go ahead and get MSpectralDynamics to remove exactly the frequencies of your kick from your bass-synth (or whatever from whatever) via it´s side-chain, without having to mess with band/frequency configurations on your own like it would be needed if using dynamic eq / typical multiband compressor. It works fantastic and provides super clean results in terms of separation. It´s basically like an automatic 16384 band (actually I think it´s even more) multiband compressor. Example (watch from 8:30):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y00kbJBLRFc&feature=youtu.be&t=662


(ffx) #93

Nice idea, how much latency is introduced by MSpectralDynamics? How does the ducked signal sound alone, is there some weird FFT / Mp3 sound audible then or does it sound fine? No ringing or so?


(Rpnz) #94

I’m still waiting for the day we don’t need a dedicated vst for this :frowning:


(gezmond) #95

@ffx: I´ve found the issue, I was running all plugins sandboxed for stability reasons on big projects, but that prevented SendIt from working at all (just saw that was mentioned earlier in this thread already). Now that I´ve disabled that option, it works just fine!

Everyone who didn´t try that yet, go ahead and get MSpectralDynamics to remove exactly the frequencies of your kick from your bass-synth (or whatever from whatever) via it´s side-chain, without having to mess with band/frequency configurations on your own like it would be needed if using dynamic eq / typical multiband compressor. It works fantastic and provides super clean results in terms of separation. It´s basically like an automatic 16384 band (actually I think it´s even more) multiband compressor. Example (watch from 8:30):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y00kbJBLRFc&feature=youtu.be&t=662

How did you get this to work with no sidechain option available?


(ABįSƧȔš ṼØȊÐƎ) #96


(Ledger) #97

Similar trick to @EnergyCrush using aliases for a vocoder:

A different way to use kick sidechain in metaplugin without the need for the send plug and any problems that it might cause:

  • Load Metaplugin on the track you want to have Sidechain effected.
  • Load your Sidechain compressor + a kick synth into Metaplugin and route as shown below.
  • From renoise’s Load Plugin Menu you should find Metaplugin available as an alias FX.
  • Load alias FX into a blank instrument slot and sequence your kick in renoise with it (separate from your real kick track).

Metaplugin should now receive the midi and pass that to your kick synth/ sampler which will drive the SC of the compressor.


Metaplugin as Alias FX

alias%20metaplugin

Routing:

EKS%20MIDI%20Drive%20metaplugin