I’ve never been able to get the delay column to work on midi instruments. It does work on samples. The Qxx fx delay works on both. Is this normal behavior or am I doing something wrong?
When playing this loop shown in the attached image there is an audible delay on the 2nd note of each group of 4, except for the 1st track. (EDIT: I can’t see the attached image so here’s a link http://i.imgur.com/ECPPizh.png)
The majority of my work is with midi and the polyphonic aspect of the delay column would be greatly useful. Splitting drums onto multiple tracks to fine tune delays on simultaneous hits is becoming a bottleneck. Even if that’s the best option, I’d like to hear confirmation so I can move on and stop thinking about what I might be doing wrong
I’ve never heard that this should be an issue, and neither did a quick test reveal any problems.
I connected a MIDI loopback cable to an external software and checked with zero delay, 40, 80 and FF and they all worked fine, no matter what playback speed (BPM/LPB) I chose
You are of course aware that FF is such an extreme delay value that the note “practically” ends up playing on the next line?
To me, it really sounds like there is some kind of quantization going on in the receiving end. Check your hardware?
Instruments: Elektron Machinedrum, Nord G2, Arturia Minibrute, and a 2nd instance of Renoise (for the loopbacks)
The hardware instruments are connected directly to the M-Audio box - no daisy chaining. Unfortunately I just gave away an old MOTU midi box (doesn’t work with linux), so I can’t compare it to the M-audio. Renoise is 3.1.0, 64 bit on w7, 32 bit on linux. No configuration produced behavior different from the OP. The delay column seems to do nothing in all configurations, and the only common factor is Renoise. I can also fire up PureData in either OS and send totally fluid, off-the-grid midi via the M-Audio and loopbacks without any quantification effects.
The Qxx delays continue function as expected in every configuration.
FF was used in the previous test to make the delay as obvious as possible with the notes on every 2nd line. With the notes on every line here I used a value of 80.
I’ve gone through the settings again and none seem relevant. Playback compatabilities are both set to ‘Renoise’. Log.txt is blank. I can present my Config.xml or screenshots of preference windows if that helps. Or even a brief audio recording so you can hear exactly what I’m hearing. Now that I know this isn’t expected behavior it’s going to drive me nuts until I figure it out!
Here’s an xnrs. Double check the master audio out, my default of ch. 7/8 probably won’t work for you. And check the midi outs, obviously.
The LPB isn’t a factor. The exact same pattern copy/pasted with the instrument # changed to point to a sample works as expected. I double checked to see if adding OFFs between each note makes a change and it does not.
I’ve tested this exact xnrs on both my W7 and linux installs and am seeing the same behavior. Very interested to see if it works on other machines.
Even if the Renoise MIDI monitor makes it looks like notes are triggered at the same time, they’re in fact sent with different intervals.
Also, sending MIDI back to Renoise might not be the best way to test as Renoise itself is able to quantize the messages (realtime/instrument trigger options). At least, make sure that this feature is disabled.
I am not sure if you are using midi to c.V. , in that case I can’t verify ,…if it is just midi I can
I downloaded the file and made the appropriate changes .
Using midi channels 1 .2.3.4. all send to yamaha a4000 .
All note delays were send correctly .
I even recorded renoise’s midi output in the yamahas internal midi sequencer and played back from the yammie ; everything was recorded/played back as well …
If you have a hardware sequencer or anything that records midi , just record renoise’s output , and see if the delays are recorded ass wel .
If not , something dodgy is going on during the midi transfer .
That’s all I can do
Hope you work it out
Oh yeah quick edit , if I do send lots of note delays …I get hung midi notes , but the uploaded file is really ‘midi friendly’
Even if the Renoise MIDI monitor makes it looks like notes are triggered at the same time, they’re in fact sent with different intervals.
Because MIDI is a serial format, yea? There shouldn’t be any reason for the timestamps to be incorrect on a lone monophonic track, though, right? Because I can see in the MIDI output monitor that the notes flagged with Qxx are obviously delayed and the ones flagged with the delay column are not. The MIDI monitor exactly matches what I’m hearing.
sending MIDI back to Renoise might not be the best way to test
Here’s a recording of Renoise’s MIDI output, explicitly highlighting the issue: http://i.imgur.com/EiIAXJQ.png
This is with OFFs between notes to make their lengths visibly obvious.
gentleclockdivider, thank you for checking the file. Knowing that it works on other machines is a big help. Are you running 3.1.0? oneunkind mentioned having the same issues I’m having but that 2.8 worked as expected. I’ll see if I can find an older version and test that on my end.
I found a demo of 2.8 on download.cnet.com and installed it (don’t do this, I probably have 666 trojans now, RIP my contact list), and guess what? The delay column works perfectly with MIDI. None of the issues I was having in 3.1.0.
I then found a copy of the 3.0.1 demo. Same as 2.8 - no issues!
The problem I’m having seems to be isolated to 3.1.0.
I have no idea why your gear refuses to receive the delay values
To be clear, there are no ‘delay values’ being sent. The note value is simply sent at a slightly later time by Renoise.
The timing of the MIDI signals coming out of Renoise 3.1.0 are not affected by the delay column. This is confirmed by every observational method available to me: the Renoise MIDI monitor, MIDI-OX’s MIDI monitor (Win7), Jack’s MIDI monitor (Linux), recordings of those MIDI signals in Reaper, 5 separate pieces hardware that respond to midi, and the blinky light on my MIDI hub.
Use a previous version of Renoise and it works. Use the Qxx fx delay and it works.
You being on 3.1.0 and having intermittent functionality w/ the delay column is very interesting. No idea why the target hardware should matter (at least, that’s a different situation than my own). Can you isolate the problem? As in, /this/ always works but /that/ always doesn’t?
Just turning phrases on wasn’t enough - the instrument I’m using was already set to ‘Program’ rather than ‘Off’ - but creating a new single-note phrase TOTALLY DID.
I guess it’s time to learn how the phrase thing works. Never used it before. Is this expected behavior?
For the time being I can make a default phrase, extend the length to 512, and make sure to drop OFFs whenever a track is going to be empty for a while to prevent accidental phrase repeats. It feels like a workaround but at least it’s a painless one. Thank you, oneunkind!
Just turning phrases on wasn’t enough - the instrument I’m using was already set to ‘Program’ rather than ‘Off’ - but creating a new single-note phrase TOTALLY DID.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. I guess i didn’t consider it ‘turned on’ unless there was a phrase to play (even just the C4). Eh, maybe I could have explained better.
I guess it’s time to learn how the phrase thing works. Never used it before. Is this expected behavior?
For the time being I can make a default phrase, extend the length to 512, and make sure to drop OFFs whenever a track is going to be empty for a while to prevent accidental phrase repeats. It feels like a workaround but at least it’s a painless one. Thank you, oneunkind!
