Say It, Don't Spray It.

Help, Support & Bugs
1

I’m not saying anyone is doing this, but just a friendly reminder that there is always always has been a feature request forum.

Ideas for the beta should be just that. Improvements on the new features.

Bonus points for explaining why your suggestion makes something better, instead of just being a random blurt, or a protest against something.

This release saw a lot of stuff discussed, considered, tried, scrapped, fought for, and fought against behind the scenes. I’m not saying it’s perfect. Just suggesting you bring something to the table if you want to be convincing. If you care about your idea, present your idea as clearly as possible, with screenshots, and so on.

Happy beta testing.

2

One thing I’d like to mention that I see happening quite a lot…

If you have an idea or a feature request, please don’t simply post it in the middle of some other thread that has nothing (or very little) to do with your actual idea, and then hope that we’ll pick up on it. This is the easiest way for your idea to get lost/ignored/forgotten in all the chaos, and this is a total nightmare for us as developers to keep track of. We do try to read all the threads and posts here, but we’re only human and we definitely miss things sometimes.

If you have a good idea, then:

  • Do a forum search to make sure it hasn’t already been suggested.
  • If it hasn’t already been suggested, then start a new thread (and give plenty of juicy details!) :)
3

Good suggestions guys.

4

Wheres the piano-roll?

:slight_smile:

5

It really is pointless discussing and trying and scrapping stuff behind the scenes
This sort of thing should be done as an open alpha for the community, you can hardly blame people for getting excited and blurting out feature requests, when updates are few and far between, it is natural instinct and for you to think otherwise is pure silliness (For the record here you can check if i have ever asked for anything to be added, i doubt very much i have hehe)

The current perception from the “Renoise heros” over at KVR is that Renoise is not a business but just a hobby, Go check the 2.8 thread at KVR
The whole perception of Renoise is completely wrong right now (Even with its stalwart fans) and again i think regular public alpha updates would show how much work is going into this app and cut down on the over excited requests ;)

6

^ i can’t help but think the abundance of feature requests after an update is also in large part due to people seeing a window of opportunity and acting upon it. reminding them of the situation is a good thing imo (even though i think people should be able to figure this stuff out for themselves).

about the idea of community alpha testing: with any new beta the forums are buzzing like mad with requests and bugreports. the mods and especially the devs themselves are way more active on the forums during this time, as they put a lot of work into answering questions and solving problems. a community alpha testing would only increase this, and it would shorten the amount of time the devs have to actually work on the software.
the same kinda logic applies to letting people know about the todo-lists for future implementation of features, something the devs don’t do either, for obvious reasons: the more you let people know what you are thinking about, even though they are just ideas, the more pressure will come from the community to actually implement it. you massacre your own schedule and you have a great potential for upheaval and unrest in the community. i don’t think that is useful in any way.

the way things are now, with the community beta testing, people have something to look forward to, get excited about when a new beta comes out. when you make the whole process transparent, this excitement will also disappear. i love the fact that i have no clue whatsoever as to what will be next, and the way in which each update surprises me again.

7

Last update was i believe a few months back? More releases have been done this year than in previous years, but that is also more easy with a bigger dev-team.
The few and far between is starting to get overrated. Ofcourse this update still doesn’t have what you need i guess, but perhaps the next one may.

They are right, Renoise is not business, should it? Though there are some that are quite capable of getting into business with Renoise but that is simply a choice that can be made. Not the first impression we like Renoise to express. That would require a different price tag and upgrade scheduling.

8

The defensive attitude is far from needed ?
I made a suggestion about open alpha testing that is all
So Renoise is not a business just a hobby ?
Well that at least makes it more understandable about the updates not being so rapid, my mistake :( the perception of Renoise is correct then

And for the record i just wondered where you got the idea that this update doesn’t have anything in it for me ?
I thought it was a very impressive update in terms of feature set
No idea where you got that guess from ?

9

Closed alpha is very well justified. We make lot of changes during alpha that sometimes get reverted or turned into something else. It’s hard to find consensus even in a small team, what would happen if we had the whole community making decisions on what should be kept and what should be removed. :wacko:

10

Imagine seeing your dream-feature implemented in Renoise, and then in the next version, it’s gone again because others found it less useful than you did. Alpha testing is far from is painful. But then, it’s both a blessing and a curse that we don’t always share the same vision for Renoise.

11

Then just keep all of the cooler alpha’s installed? :wink:

12

Open Alpha conversation I could almost see an argument for. But even if it was read-only it would still go somewhat against the no road-map, not putting up people’s expectations, always a pleasant surprise on release that Renoise currently champions.

Closed Alpha, open Beta testing makes perfect sense and shouldn’t be changed. The Beta is the open Alpha! When things are still being sketched in and being idea-finalised (well to an extent) you really want a small, core, dedicated group. Then go to Beta.

(Edit: shouldn’t not should.)

13

Personally I’m happy with how things are and I trust you guys to keep surprising me with sensible and exciting changes. I like the recent focus on scripting, workflow, and performance, making an already capable and underestimated tool even better.

Cheers,
LW.

14

what program are you talking about? Renoise gets updates quite frequently - its almost scary how much the program/project/hobby is maturing and evolving.

Conner’s point is completely valid - Put yourself in dev’s shoes, imagine attempting to manage floods and floods of everybody’s subjective opinions. I can’t imagine it’s an easy task. The constant evident fact is that the devs are doing just fine with the dev cycle of renoise.

I personally am against the open alpha concept for renoise. IMHO the renoise devs have done just fine historically with the feature vetting process. Opening the alpha stage up would likely put WAY too many cooks in the kitchen, resulting in many completely unnecessary bloody battles and design by committee… pussy footing us towards something resembling… the homer mobile.

the process aint broke. dont fix, please.

15

Awesome, can we have API access to the homermobile?

Seriously, design by committee is awful. No-one should have to do that. Keep the status quo.

16

World’s Greatest Hobby.

17

Posting here instead of KVR in case someone wants to delete this.

Renoise is more like a cult. A cult needs money too. Maintain their compound, buy food and guns…

Seriously, it’s mosltly volounteers at the devotee level.

Look in the About Renoise dialogue in the app. You’ll see a lot of names. Some do more and choose not to make it obvious, others coded core features and have moved on, and some unmentioned “regular” users have more sway than they admit, or maybe even know.

Renoise is near 10 years old. It started as a hobby. The lead dev has other projects on the side that have nothing to do with Renoise, has worked at other big name Berlin based audio software companies, and just doesn’t want to stress for some “the man” company as much as humanly possible anymore.

10 years ago trackers were dead. Only a few crazies kept using them. Over the years, for some reason, people started getting back into them. Like the TB-303, originally marketed to guitarists for bass accompaniment while practising alone, they turned into house and techno machines, and the original reason for the device is some insane joke that makes no sense.

As Renoise matured, new people joined the team, and a new idea was introduced: If we did press releases, showed up at trade shows, talked to peers, and opperated like a business instead of like a bunch of communists, we could accelerate Renoise developement by investing the returns in dev power.

All Renoise money goes directly into Renoise. Sure, a decade later ~3 people make a minimum wage living on the thing, and some tasks are contracted out, but these are people who literally love Renoise.

Furthermore, a lot of us are almost 40. We’re older, more mellow, and hedging bets. Maybe expanding the product line is in the pipeline. Who knows?

The only “fact” to retain, or that will ever be known, is everyone who works on Renoise works on it to make music with Renoise. If tomorrow Renoise makes $1 a year, it will only slow things down, but not stop “the tracker legacy.”

And yes, open alpha is suicide, open beta is good times.

18

…then the jews persecuted the tracker and hung it on a cross.
“Forgive them, amiga for they know not what they do.”

19

“Open alpha” is actually meaningless, given that the defining difference between alpha and beta testing is that alpha is internal whereas beta is public (or semi-public). To have an “open alpha” is essentially equivalent to going straight into beta with no alpha testing at all.

20

Good times, amen.