[Solved] Compression Side Chains

Help, Support & Bugs
10

Yes it was energyXT

Here`s a quick explaination for bass + bass drum configuration if you are not familiar with XT:

  1. Open XT as an instrument in renoise.

  2. Right click to add a MIDI patcher.

  3. right-click to add your Bass VST and again to add your Bass drum VST. You can use a VST sampler or the XT one. (easier to use a VST one if you have one and are familiar with it. If not the XT one can be used).

  4. Add your sidechain compressor in the same way.

  5. Link as follows:

Master in to the MIDI patcher
MIDI patcher out 1 to the bass drum VST
MIDI patcher out 2 to the Bass VST
The outs from these two VSTs to the compressors input plus a second routing from the out into the extra sidechain input.

(all very easy when you see it :) )

Then the output of the compressor goes to the master out.

5.Now open the MIDI patcher and choose a range for output 1 by left-click dragging the mouse over the low and high values. This is the range in which you have to sequence your bass drum in renoise. Create a differing range for output 2 (higher or lower). This is the range for your bassline.

Now you can adjust the transpose button if needed so your bass synth plays in the correct octave.

  1. sequence your track in renoise using the octaves you set. Adjustments can always be made after to correct/ change.

  2. Adjust your compressor accordingly while playing your renoise sequence. Raising ratio and reducing threshhold should accentuate the effect particularly with a fast attack and release.

  3. Ask Ledger to explain WTF he is on about on the renoise forum if he missed anything vital or confused you with the above… ;) :P

disclaimer: I am no expert on sidechain compression so the exact routing configuration I have given may not be what you are after but hopefully enough information is there to let you do what you wanted.

11

wow ok I have to sit down for this one… thanks for you efforts to explain how you did it! I’ll try it when I find the time and let you know if point 8 becomes relevant :D

12

Had a go with energyXT and trial version of otiumFX Compadre:

  1. Go to instrument slot 1 in Renoise. Make an instance of energyXT. Leave it at Channel 01. Open it.

  2. Add the VSTi that you’ll use for your drum(loop). Double-click this VSTi and where it says Rch, change it to 1.

  3. Go to instrument slot 2 in Renoise. Make an alias of the energyXT instance. Change it to Channel 02. Open it.

  4. Add the VSTi that you’ll use for your bass. Double-click this VSTi and where it says Rch, change it to 2.

  5. In energyXT, add otiumFX Compadre (Stereo SC or Mono SC).

Connect like this:

From Master In goes one to each VSTi.

From the VSTi you use for bass, connect it to the first (pair of, if you use
Stereo SC) Audio Input(s) on Compadre.

From the drum(s) VSTi’s Audio Output(s), into the (two) other Audio Input(s) on Compadre.
Thus far, it only works as key input for Compadre, and isn’t audible.

From the same VSTi’s Audio Output(s) to the Master Out to make it audible.

And lastly, from Compadre’s Audio Output to Master Out.

Sorry if it seems a bit patronising to write how to connect everything. Just to be sure no one goes asunder because of lack of guidance and councelling.
Keep in mind that I’m not even sure it’s the proper way to do it. ;)

Using Compadre to sidechain is explained more thoroughly here:
http://www.otiumfx.com/compadre.php#

It also has a link there explaining what sidechaining is exactly.

For freeware, you can try the SC version of mdsp’s compressor (I haven’t):
http://mdsp.smartelectronix.com/classic/20…sor.php85D-286E

13

Ok, I tried all this and it does not have any effect. I see the signals coming and going thru EnergyXT. The diagrams make sense and I fiddled with the compressor settings but it is not noticable other again that gain is working. I probably overlooked something. I used Compadre MonoSC and StereoSC and some others… If someone could make a screenshot of the diagram in EnergyXT for reference I could check it (I know I should but I just closed Renoise ;) )

14

Yes you should :P ;) but here`s one that may help:

I have used a slightly different method here, using jthalamus VST to get the MIDI data into XT. I have written a thread on how to do this here:

http://www.renoise.com/board/index.php?act…e3bb4c50eef6fcc

You should be able to see how to set up the routing for the compressor though for either method.

Also you can change which signal is affecting the compressor side-chain to your choice, bass or drum.

Hope this helps!

Edit: the image doesnt seem to be showing properly here some times, I will get back onto it in a bit as dont have time at the second.
Edit2: fixed, but please let me know if you are having problems viewing

15

Is this function implemented now ?

16

yes, you can do it using the Signal follower meta-device

17

Yeaaaah thank you so much my friend, u made my day happy ^^

Oh and thanks for the great mods too ;) respect.

18

Mmmmh, I’m quite disappointed here… I tried to use the signal follower to make my sidechain (or to vocode)… And it seems I can just convert the audio into ‘midi’ control… Not routing the audio signal into the input of a third party plug-in :( :( :(

I hope there is a way to do this or i’ll regret to have invest in Renoise… Reading too fast that sidechain is available… The “trick” of controlling a gainer (or whatever) with the signal follower, I was doing it since many years by the hand, or whit a few copy-paste-edit… This is not what i want…

What I really need is to route audio inside plug-ins, like all the top DAWs can do since long… Maybe I just miss something but it seems i’m stuck…

If this feature is not ready yet, can we know if it is on the Devs TODO list ? If yes when it will be available ?
If not, is there some place to suggest to have it ?

I start to regret my bought already :( for me it was obvious that such a feature should have been implemented since loooooong…

I don’t want to do again this old trick with senderella and energyXT :( :( :( :( I decided to bought Renoise just because I was thinking this issue was fixed.

Sorry to be a bit dark in my thought but i just feel i’ll have to switch, or using renoise as an add-on…

19

@Davias: you can make suggestions for features in the Ideas/Suggestions subforum.

i’ll tell you up front you are not going to get timing-info on the dev todo-list. i’m sure your feature has been requested before and is on there somewhere, but for various reasons detailed around these forums, they will not let people know what their list looks like, or what the plans for the next release are going to be.

furthermore, a lot of people think a lot of features should’ve been implemented a loooooooooong time ago, and feature X is available in ‘every modern DAW’. this is a matter of eternal debate, and these arguments are essentially what kids used to do with their parents “but Bobby can have an Xbox360 so why can’t i??”. personally, i do not think any feature can be demanded on the basis of such arguments.

if you indeed feel like you regret having invested in Renoise, that is too bad, and i hope you can find a way to work it into your workflow anyway. however, you have still paid about 50 bucks for a full-fledged DAW which misses maybe a couple of things but has tons of others built in. imo, you got a lot of stuff for your quite little amount of money (and i’d hardly call it an ‘investment’) - at least you got more than you will ever get at this price from another DAW. this is, again, a discussion done a 100 times before and i will not go any further into it.

20

Audio routing as you hope is currently not possible in Renoise.

Much of what you want to do is possible by using some of the internal DSPs and Send Tracks. This does rely on the Effect you are wanting to use only having two input channels though (one Mono Audio, one Sidechain/Effect/Control channel.)

Basically you have to take your audio, mono it (if needed) pan hard to one side, do the same with the audio that is going to create the effect and pan hard to the other side, combine in a Send Track and put through your effect and see if that works.

This is how people have been using Vovoder effects with Renoise for at least the last 5 years ;)

21

First of all, I can understand your frustration. More advanced audio routing is something that has been discussed quite a bit here on the forums, so we do understand that it’s a desirable feature. I’m pretty sure that it will be addressed at some point in the future, but at the moment it is not possible.

Second of all, it’s important to understand that sidechaining and audio routing are separate concepts. Sidechaining is simply a technique to convert an audio signal into a control signal for something else. It’s obviously very commonly used to control compression levels, but it can also apply to many other effects and situations. However, when connecting the Signal Follower device to a Gainer or Compressor (or various other devices), it is actually possible to perform your own sidechain compression techniques and do popular things like ‘ducking’ the volume of a bassline when the kick hits. But ultimately the Signal Follower is a meta device, so it cannot perform any audio routing; it can only control the parameters of other devices.

If this issue of audio routing was such a critical part of your workflow and something that can ‘make or break’ the software for you, then this should have been the first thing to test in the Renoise demo. This is why we do not place any major restrictions on the demo - so that people can fully test things and make sure that it works the way they expect.

Anyway… Hopefully this is not the end of the Renoise world for you. All DAWs have their pros and cons, their own unique characteristics and behaviours, etc. Try to think about all the awesome things that Renoise can do, rather than focusing on a few negative aspects. :)

22

Even though its not possible trough renoise, you are always welcome to use a vst.
I haven’t used this one but I know some people are and they are happy with it:
http://www.twistedlemon.nl/site/index.php

Btw sidekick 3 was for free, search the net if you dont want to pay.

23

Sorry to get so passionate… Just before buying I read that now sidechainning is possible. I was thinking so hard that it was audio routing… Not to simulate with the signal follower. For that, I was doing it already with LFOs or simply automation. But the Signal Follower is a nice add. Just for me audio routing seemed the vital thing to have : Total control over audio and midi signal, like that u can experiment to unleash the full power of your plug-ins.

I put a lot of emotions in my writings coz it’s the first time i buy a DAW. I always relied by the past on free things, and I wanted to make a foolish thing and spend the money (I know the others DAW are quite more expensive than Renoise, so for me it’s a direct no-go. Also thanks to my readings on this forum, I know now a lot of free plugs so no need to buy any synth finally). I waited for audio-routing inside plug-ins to make my decision and buy finally Renoise, after knowing the product for years, and loving it for what it was. So as soon as I read that SD was possible, I jumped in (after a little problem with VST synth, but this is nothing comparing to this routing thing).

Beside that, the glitch is awesome, thank you dBlue, I hope my post didn’t offend you. It was so obvious for me that audio routing was built-in (i mean routing into secondary inputs) that I was shocked when I understood that in fact it wasn’t. The other day I spend all my evening trying to achieve this, going to sleep too late, trying trying trying, telling myself “this isn’t possible” and the morning after I sent the message from work, in a really desperate mood.

For me for now the only thing Renoise lacks (except accepting more plug-ins format but this is an option) is this so important routing feature. Except that I can do everything I want and even more… But this is a “break” for me… I have to think how I will manage to overcome it. Hope energyXT is free and that it’ll be not too much cpu consuming :( (I don’t remember)

Could someone route me to topics where it is discussed about audio-routing inside plug-in feature and about why we can’t have the todo list to read ? I would like to know about it, but don’t want to make u repeat what was debated before ^^

Rakib > thank you for your advice ;) I don’t like the sound of sidekick sadly.

Kazakor > could u give me a details, I don’t understand exactly how it works ?

What I don’t regret, is to sign up on Renoise forum ^^ although this was free anyway :P

24

E.g. ► Renoise 2.6.1 Released (2.6 Bugfix Update)

25

Thank you !

I was wondering… If I miss some feature in Renoise, maybe I could add it myself ? I’m a coder but :

  • I don’t know anything yet about VST sdk ^^
  • I, of course, don’t know anything about Renoise code :P
  • I did my thesis about audio synthesis… I started to make a Reaktor-like environment, all in Java :P of course that was basic, ugly, with few modules available (even if my Granular Synth was funny to play with :P). But really opened and extensible. Sadly I lost all this code while my hd crashed 6 years before (as well as all my music production, and the theory papers of my thesis). So I need to train a little before starting ;)

I said that as half-a-joke… I read that the Renoise team evolve over the years, with some roll-out. But for now I didn’t feel ready yet to really involve as I lack knowledge and training… But who knows maybe someday, that would be a dream ^^(and then I could add audio-routing inside plug-ins :D :D)

26

“I have a dream…”

27

Mmmh :P I don’t like to repeat myself but some other DAW with names beginning by R… are doing this…

Plus, since u can send audio buffer through a plug-in wrapper (I hope I use the right words :P), IMO routing a 2nd audio signal inside a second input of the same FX sounds… easy to me… especially with OO coding. Now clearly I miss something or I’m unaware of some detail coz it’s still not here.

I dying wish it will be there for 2.8 (or any other evolution number, if it’s there in 2.7.2 for me it’s the same as long as it’ll be there fast).
I don’t ask for anything, but I dream of it every single second of my life, I’ll feel uncomplete, inachieved, if I have not this.

I feel so bad about it guys… Like if my gf dropped me, or someone died. :D I’m burning from inside waiting for it. My life is stuck :D really

Oh, don’t misunderstand me, I still consider Renoise as a masterpiece, and almost the best DAW out there. But I can’t say the best anymore since I miss this feature.

When I start a new track, I begin always to route and put sidechainning (as well as other routing, inside plugs !). So for now I just can’t use it.

I need to grab info on energyXT to see if it’s free, or an alternative.
Or swith to R… :( I don’t want that…

28

@Davias : what I meant by the Martin Luther King quote was, that I too used to live in the future (I’m not being sarcastic, this is a perfectly normal condition for digital musicians).
I would simply try to experiment with some of the stuff that’s possible, IMO you’re missing out on some great opportunities.

29

i agree with you, in general.

The routing is predominant in my way to do music. First thing I do before even writing a note is to route, split freqs, sidechain, etc… I was even thinking to make a template once all my routing and sidechainning would have been ready.

If I don’t want to do it with the Signal Follower is that I will miss the special algos one can put in a vst.

Ok u are right I could make my own algorithms by combining internal DSP and thus achieve an original processing. But I don’t want that, I want to use state of the arts Compressor (or Dyn Eq, or Vocoder whatever) with their own specific algos.

I like renoise routing with the sends (even if you can’t send toward a previous track, but it’s funny to reorder them and see it working :P)

Another feature that is important to me is to use plug-ins.

So renoise was the perfect choice coz it has these features + the tracking interface (i would like a piano roll someday, as many users, it is so easy to make random melodies like this when u don’t have inspiration :P but I can manage easily without it) and all the polish on it.

But I intend to exploit the full power of theses plug-ins, if not then I would have been happy with something closed like Reason for example, that is a model regarding routing possibilies. For me if I can’t use the routing, then it’s incomplete. So I’ll have to bother with 3rd party routing, crippling my perfs. Or use a product i like less but that allow this kind of routing.

People often tends to remind only the negatives points, so I repeat : Renoise rocks, it’s so great about so many aspects.
Anyway, I could love this pearl the most i can, it lacks a top priority feature IMO. I was thinking this was fixed since long… (sorry to repeat myself). I’m really interested to know what is blocking with this feature.