Sononym - Sample Browser


(midi error) #141

I had the same problems, till i was using a single folder with junctions to all my sample locations. So the database will be created just once in this special folder and all my samples are indexed in one database file.

Well, I just tried to do it on the C drive and it still wont happen!

For the record I don’t have any cracked software or ever use torrents! I’m on Win 7 64 Bit …still unable to try this software!


(toimp) #142

Just create a new folder “C:\SononymLib” or put it in your documents folder. Now add junctions via command line of all your sample folders to this main folder as sub folders. In Sononym you just add your new created folder. It will create the database files inside it and will index all sub folders for samples. Works without issues for me.

Edit: @danoise Is it possible to"relearn" samples again. I’ve some in my collection, which are not categorized.


(danoise) #143

Is it possible to"relearn" samples again. I’ve some in my collection, which are not categorized.

The process is idempotent, same input will lead to the same result. Re-analysing the sound will not change this.

And the lack of a category most likely is the intended behavior: in your case, it’s probably a sound that had the

character of multiple categories but none of them very strong - in such a case, we decided that results are

fuzzy enough as they are, so in case of multiple “doubtful” predictions, we have chosen to not display the category

(internally, the little bit of various categories are still factored in when computing similarity, etc.)

You might have noticed that sometimes, the opposite is true as well: samples having multiple categories.

That’s nice though, because that “snarey” kick could then turn up in a search for both Kicks and Snares.

I’ve been thinking of setting up a repository of some kind, a place we could exchange, rate and discuss sounds.

But hard-to-categorize samples will continue to be difficult, and only the addition of traditional (text-based) metadata will be able to solve this -

and then, of course, the ability to launch a similarity search - that feature makes sounds discoverable, no matter what their categories might be


(midi error) #144

Now add junctions via command line of all your sample folders to this main folder as sub folders.

How do i do this?


(danoise) #145

How do i do this?

If you’re on Windows, I would recommend this tool. It makes creating EVERY kind of symlink* easy through shell menu integration:

http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html

  • Delorean Copy, WTH? I’d recommend sticking with symlinks or junctions :slight_smile:

(toimp) #146

The process is idempotent, same input will lead to the same result. Re-analysing the sound will not change this…

Ok thx. I’ve rechecked it. Could be possible i’ve missed something, for example that this samples was classified as Loop, so no categorization will be done.

Btw. it would be nice, when Sononym would also crawl zip and xrns/rns files for samples :slight_smile:


(ffx) #147

I have a question: Why it is fetching all files every time I start it? Can’t it just recursive dir-ing and compare timestamps or so?


(danoise) #148

Why it is fetching all files every time I start it?

When you launch, are you looking at the file browser (explore tab) or libraries?

For the file browser, it needs to index files. Libraries just need to initialize their databases…


(ffx) #149

When you launch, are you looking at the file browser (explore tab) or libraries?

For the file browser, it needs to index files. Libraries just need to initialize their databases…

No, I mean I have about ~100k samples and when I start Sononym it takes like 50 seconds until I finally can scroll the files in the library tab, on a pretty slow HDD. With 6 libraries.

Then I moved all my sample dirs to a brand new evo 860 ssd into one single library only (90k samples now) and the startup time is down to 2 s… Weird. Maybe it gets slow as soon as there are multiple libs?

I wonder if you could add some caching mechanism, reducing startup time, like scanning just with dir/“ls” instead whole files or so? Anyway, once it was started, it is a bliss to use.

Well I guess you had all these ideas already :slight_smile: One more thing is you could run one crawler per CPU core, since it seem to access the drive with lot of pauses, then intercommuicate between the crawlers so only one accesses the drive at once (while one processes data, the other accesses drive).

Btw. is it based on chromium or webkit? I tried some “gpu enabling webkit css tricks” in sononym index.css, but did not notice any difference in gui speed, like

-webkit-transform: translateZ(0px);
    -moz-transform: translateZ(0.00001px);

If you want to speed up your css development, maybe have a look at less. It really makes css work a bliss, simplifies the structure a lot and only requires that javascript as pre-compiler thing.

EDIT: Impulse responses are not so nicely categorized. Maybe you could train it for detecting impulse responses, too?

EDIT2: If you reindex and then quit sononym while indexing is running, you will get an error after next start of sononym, if you start indexing again, since the crawler process won’t be exited. Maybe that is intended, but feels weird to me.


(midi error) #150

If you’re on Windows, I would recommend this tool. It makes creating EVERY kind of symlink* easy through shell menu integration:

http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html

Thanks I’ll try it - like i said before though - I cant even install at c:\sononymnewfolder


(danoise) #151

@ffx: yeah SSD makes an amazing difference, doesn’t it? :slight_smile:
For performance reasons, we’re initializing multiple libraries simultaneously only when they are located on different drives
(this is also why symlinking on non-SSD drives can actually worsen the performance).

Thanks I’ll try it

But it’s a shitty workaround for what seems like a more fundamental problem. Hmm.

Is there any way to set where the database is built? I am having read-only problems with my samplesfolder. For some reason however I change the permissions, it cannot write the database

Have you tried the simplest possible approach, copying over the files into a new folder? I guess so.
What happens if you try with just a few samples, on different drives?

Sounds like either the application has somehow not got enough privileges, or your HDD has very restrictive access.

But it’s anyone’s guess - I know I have a few folders on my machine that are impossible to delete, for whatever reason.

It’s a shame that you’ve been missing out for so long - I’ve been using some of your libraries for testing and evaluating results, during development.
And I can vouch for the results - Sononym does a mostly good job at understanding your samples :walkman:


(ffx) #152

danoise, nice would be if you could exclude specific dirs within a library, by right clicking them and then choosing “exclude”, then sononym could place a “.exclude” file to the dir or so.


(Jackie) #153

The application is awesome, though I have one kinda serious problem - my asio driver have problem with multiclient tasks, which means I cannot use my DAW and Sononym at the same time without pops and crackles :(.

Either ability to free audio driver when changing app focus or vst plugin (better) would be great.


(ceejay) #154

Bought it even without trial test run )

Scanniiiinnnng now… Will get back later with reports and feature requests.

Good luck with your new and shiny, unique smart and beauty app, guys !


(ceejay) #155

It works like a charm, i’m absolutely in love in it!

Similarity search is super helpful for sound design, i can’t imagine how i lived w/o it before ))

Here is my feat.requests, suggestions:

  1. Please add ability to sort/filter results by exact note within the octave, for example i need to get listed all C# files usefully in one list no matter which octave it is, which is currently impossible.

  2. I was surprised that it’s impossible to select multiple categories in lower categ. panel (with Shift button for example). It’s counter-intuitive. Frequently i need more than just one category to extend search results.

  3. I suppose it would be super useful if user’d be able to make multiple searches.

… I mean, for example you got one search setup with all categ’s, filters, similarity attributes proportions, search words… It get quite time to set-up your search properly.

And i want to stay with this setup, and open another search Tab, where i could set-up another search, and then if i need to get back to previous search results setup/Tab.

Anyway, the app is a beauty! Fresh minded and ultra useful once you get it right!

Cheers.


(ffx) #156

The application is awesome, though I have one kinda serious problem - my asio driver have problem with multiclient tasks, which means I cannot use my DAW and Sononym at the same time without pops and crackles :(.

Either ability to free audio driver when changing app focus or vst plugin (better) would be great.

Can’t you run your interface with ASIO4ALL instead, since it supports multi client access.


(danoise) #157

Hey ceejay, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!!

Here is my feat.requests, suggestions:

  1. Please add ability to sort/filter results by exact note within the octave, for example i need to get listed all C# files usefully in one list no matter which octave it is, which is currently impossible.

  2. I was surprised that it’s impossible to select multiple categories in lower categ. panel (with Shift button for example). It’s counter-intuitive. Frequently i need more than just one category to extend search results.

  3. I suppose it would be super useful if user’d be able to make multiple searches.

… I mean, for example you got one search setup with all categ’s, filters, similarity attributes proportions, search words… It get quite time to set-up your search properly.

And i want to stay with this setup, and open another search Tab, where i could set-up another search, and then if i need to get back to previous search results setup/Tab.

  1. Absolutely, we need an “ignore octaves” switch. And a right-click for entries: “Find samples matching this pitch” for that matter :slight_smile:

  2. Indeed, would make sense but didn’t make it into this version.

  3. Save a search, recall it later on - check! This would very powerful, and we’re thinking that it should be able to store a reference sound as well. This way, you could store the entire query with all filters, even while in similarity search mode.

@ffx/Jackie: yes, this has been brought up elsewhere. Asio4All might do the trick here even if it ain’t pretty.

Releasing the driver won’t fix the problem, unfortunately as you’d have to ask the DAW to do the same thing. Some DAWs have this feature, but far from all

(the common lack of multi-client support is the single worst thing about ASIO drivers…)


(ceejay) #158

Save a search, recall it later on

Interesting. Please give a hint how could i do it ?
Also, reloading search will take time to refine it’s results ? If yes, than the search Tab’s approach should be more straightforward and giving user ability to maintain and configure multiple searches simultaneously.


(danoise) #159

Interesting. Please give a hint how could i do it ?

Ah, with all the “would be” and “should be” I thought I was being clear that it’s (also) a planned feature :blush:

Btw:I hear you with the tabs. But try the following: switch between a couple of libraries, enable and disable filters etc. - and then hit the “back” button to traverse back in your browsing history. Then imagine that a saved query would be nothing more than a “snapshot” of this history, which you can then apply to whatever results you might have in front of you.


(ceejay) #160

Cool! Can’t wait for further updates)
Hope you doing well and people digging your approach! (and buying the app))

Keep my fingers crossed for you guys.