V1.5 Irritations

I wanted to take an off-topic quote from a bug-report but i don’t want to offend anyone neither do i want to repeat unwishfull postings so i decided to leave it as it is.
I however do see frustration level and ranting becoming more intense here and there and i find that a pity.

Not only Renoise users having a hard time with the new builds, but i also would like to point out from the developer’s position it wasn’t easy either:

Everybody tries to supply his or her share in this part. The product won’t get any better if we all jump into radical conclusions and loose the patience.
Even though you may kill your neighbours for anydays frustrations, just remain calm and friendly on this board, most people try to do so.

It’s software that heavily depends on hardware and it shall never work 100% a-okay on every hardware available on this globe, though the best is done to get this thing going as smooth as silk for all and for everybody. It does require some patience to bring up and see if we can all make this piece of software work like the charm anyone desires.

Sincere regards to every Renoise user out there (with or without the patience),


I read the bug-forums often and it seems that some people, although very few like to treat it as their personal “venting room”.

Id like to think that these angry elements are those who track music with great fiery passion and cest, and to whom “heaven and hell are but a breath away”.
However, when frustrated they look like dorks.
If only they would share with us all their inspiration and enthusiasm and take their angriness elsewhere, go strangle a banana or something.

Maybe more people could take some time to read the bugforums so that problems could be resolved quicker. One thing thing that is helpful is to help replicate errors that are related to VST/VSTis, the developers certainly dont have every single plugin ever made.

Bugreportrer: Bug report VST XXX 1.0 is not working
Helpful dude: Ah thats been fixed in version 1.1
All: LOL!

The developers does indeed deserves the biggest of appreciation. The intricacies of bringing this beast of a program is mindboggling for the likes of me.
A few versions in the future, I plan to re-register to again show support. Im not a religous person but the development of Renoise is something that I believe in :D And in terms of good times the 45$ was for me paid in full after the first week.

One small advice: New version = new registration or registration upgrade. For example upgrade from 1.281 to 1.5 final can be valued to 20-30 euro. In my opinion this is good point for developers for make work perfect and good point for users for make more detailed bugreports.

And one more advice: For make right good promotion you need really good and pro examples in RNS format. I look Reason some time ago and I can say this is really “top of the line” music editor for modern music creation. Because it have GREAT examples. With good optimisation and this is important too. For example I very like one Reason demo trance theme “Uncnown Source - Realisation” and like chillout theme “A Nu Direction by YMC”. I think good examples is more good promotion way than deatailed help. Becouse not all beginners know english good and first time after install demo of the programm they looking for demos.

Example situation 1: beginner user load demo version of Reason and look to the demos and what he can say? Yes… This program is superb and I want buy it and I want work with it. And very good demos of It use only 30% of my 500mghz Notebook!!! 8)

Example situation 2: beginner user load demo version of Renoise and look to the demos and what he can say? Hmm… Programs looks good, but demos is some strange chunks in demoscene demo style. Not so bad, but I don’t know what I can do with using of this program. And some of this average in sound demos use 50% of my 2ghz desktop computer!!! :(

Try to find few good composers in renoise scene for example level of Keith303, Bantai or me ( :) ) offer they work to do 5-10 good demo tracks and pay to they 100-150 euro for every composition. And don’t be greedy in this situation it is normal price for commercial music and for good initiative increasement.

And try to does not take offence to some my posts if you do it. They cause of my looking to real professional electronic music scene and thinks about it…

There are three pretty cool demos that come with the package now. For my mind The Path and On My Mind are great compositions, I love em. But they cretainly could be tweaked a little to give an uber pro sound. That wouldn’t be hard, even with in-house dsps.

I certainly see no problem with offering more demos in terms of showing off how good Renoise is, but that would increase download size. It takes me 20-30 minutes to download it now, that’s on dial-up.

I was thinking the other day: Renoise 1.5 final should be released on a demo CD-rom that comes with a music-making magazine. On the CD could be a folder of the ‘best-of-the-best’ songs made by us using only in-house dsps. FT2 used to be marketed in a similar way.

As for what vvoois is saying I agree. Keep it chilled. If it took 3 years to release 1.5 it would be well worth the wait. In light of Taktik’s comments I’d say the devs should conserve their energies: pace it. Don’t give in to a community that just can’t stop sucking on the sauce bottle (especially when the sauce is sooo good). :dribble:

I remember similar comments from Vogue and Mr.H of Starbreeze. They were so flat out fixing FT2 all the time they “ruined their studies” and probably walked away without much money, if any at all. Take heed from history: don’t burn yourselves out. True fans of Renoise will be patient because they know what is coming will be decent. The lamers can just steam away and learn to wait.

I’m sure me rambling about it is not really going to affect their conclusions of the 1.5 developmental process. I’m sure the solutions have become clear already.

As for us: yeah be nice. If something is bugging you with the prog, then make a post, wait, and if you’re clever: find your own way around it :)

If the development team are looking for additional programmers, can I put up my hand?
I’m handy with c/c++ (among others) and osx, although most my coding to date has either been for personal use or university (BSc Mathematics), with only a very little for private enterprise a few years ago. Nevertheless, I’m willing to work for free.
I’m constantly frustrated with the lack of good inexpensive music software. Renoise has so much potential, and it would be most satisfying to have some way to help it on it’s way to becoming awidely recognised and used application.
As for some kind of portfolio, I’m just polishing some vst plugins right now. I’ll post them when they’re ready. I don’t expect any kind of reply to this, but I thought I’d ask anyway.

2 Foo?
“For my mind The Path and On My Mind are great compositions, I love em.”

I like this tunes too. But try to understand demostyle and demoscene is very - very little part of whole electronic music scene. Not all peoples can undrerstand such music and developers if they want have potential in professional scene needed in some additions, to be able to meet competition and really had such level in pro scene. Becouse renoise have word “professional” in “main nik” of the programm and in the web. I think it will be cool if after some time developers of the program wich I work can make presentation on the NAMM for example. :D
I don’t ask in your answer for this. Becouse I know what you can say. Renoise is good, great, etc. But i hope you can understand I want work with really professional program with full support, good able to meet competition, and nice examples, and dial up speed of downlading it is not so critical.
BTW I think every nice and big module can be optimized to 1-1.5 mb unpacked size it is not critical parameter. And developers of renoise can try to include some free VSTi synth to distributive of renoise. in the same way what has done developer of Mad Tracker 2.

I agree, should be some demo tunes using included free vsti´s.
Because the demotunes that comes with Renoise does not sound as pro, as they could/should.

Using VST`s doesnt make anything sound pro. You can do wonderful stuff wit samples.

Really? :) I’m really sorry… :) But make normal qulity tunes with samples which used sampler of renoise it is very hard work. In ditto time make analogue quality with VSTi is most easy way to do nice quality. And this tunes can use very little memory with compare of “elephant” samples. :)

Using samples or VSTi’s is not a criterion of ‘PRO sounding’

I’m on taktik’s side. Not important using what song was made but important how.

And backwards - you can give supercomputer to troglodyte and hi’ll use it to kill mammoth by hammering his head with it.

Sure you can, you can ofcourse also sample some vsti´sounds.
But if you are restricted to the internal sampler of Renoise it is harder atleast for me to get that pro sound quality, unless I don’t use huge samples.

EternalEngine i think you are a bit out of tune with this project, take into account that taktik and the small team have regular jobs beside renoise, many are even volunteers(!). Renoise is cheap, so one could expect progress at a pace that justify the low price (not that i believe progress has been slow at all).

My point is, it’s almost unjust to advice such great things when it’s not a full time job in the normal sense, and price is as low as it is. Because they would do what you’ve suggested if they had the time or the money. Greedy? i think not.

At times like these, i can’t help but think how fortunate we are to actually have a sophistcated TRACKER! Think not what the tracker can do for you, but what you can do for your tracker (to keep it kicking).

Renoise == 45,-$
Reason == 599,-$
Cubase == 1108,-$

Even though i’m mr. anti religion himself, i’m beginning to think there just might be something more between heaven and earth :lol:

Listen guys, we have discussed this many times before, we can’t have VSTi module examples for obvious reasons, so forget it.

edit: Unless people like laurencedavies releases VSTi’s that may be redistributed with renoise…

that’s not true … it’s nearly impossible (or too complicated) to create natural sounding pianos or strings with the Renoise-samper at the moment - it’s only a simple sampler … good for simple sounds … if you need really dynamic instruments u must use midi/vsti and synths or sampler …

but this should be clear …

“you can give supercomputer to troglodyte and hi’ll use it to kill mammoth by hammering his head with it.”

:lol: Troglodites is happy nation, they problems is so little and easy. :lol:
Take it easy man. Some peoples can see only what they want to see.
I slowly disappointed, I think I go to Reason In the near future…

it’s not impossible.

it just requires craftsmanship. i hardly ever use vsts except for the occasional spacialization or eq plugin. one of the cool things about a tracker with a signal processing engine that grabs cubase by the ears and drags it around the block is that you can make anything out of any sample if you’re willing to twist and tweak it right. in my opinion this is the ONLY way to get truly natural instrument sounds. VSTs use velocity and pitch variation algorythms to accomplish the nuances of “natural” sounds and usually end up sounding too formulaic to be natural to me.

i’m with taktik on this 'un too.

the tracker is a lathe: it does most of the hard work for you, but you need have a steady hand and know how to porperly work it to achieve the most graceful of compositions.

I agree. After a long time of VST-fascination I’m falling back to using as many samples as possible.

Note that Renoise gives you more control on the samples than any other sampler in the world, thanks to tracker commands etc. As soon as Renoise supports multilayering some day it will kick ass of any Halion or Kontakt.

Guys I read your answers and recall some disputs about “Tracker” vs “Midi”.
Which I look In some forums years ago… And want say - sorry this is meaningless disputs. Becouse who can work with synth and know many nuances of this work never back to samples. Quality of VSTi synth in electronic music beyond reach for work with samples. And I don’t want make disputs about this in this theme, I only know this and say to you one time. :)
Samples is past, forgot and don’t care about they… :)
But of course learning take much time and if someone don’t have this time or don’t want learn some new, he can use samples. IMO If he use highest and very good samples he can make sound evaluated to 9/10, but 10/10 can be reached only with emulation or not emulation of analogue synth. :)
Mayby I is to critical but I don’t want go to undoubtedly not good way.
And samples is such way for me. Sorry. :)

i use samples for drums and vocals, and VST-s for almost everything else…

well, sometimes i use bass samples too…

This is a great threadjack by EternalEngine in a thread talking about, among other things, the arrogant and needy attitude of some users in the forum,
but here goes.

Ok and you try to be less defensive and more helpful :) You just seem to assume that everyone else is striving for mediocrity.

My belief is that demos should be kept small but technical, their purpose is to show the powerful environment. And the best example of this is using the internal sampler, having countless possibilities over some of the most advanced samplers available, due to its deep integration.

If people require example music , to know how VST instruments sound, they should find ample so, in an actual genre of their liking, in the “song” section. Theyre available in MP3 and often also in .RNS format.

A promotional package like the one Foo? suggests for magazines should certainly contain a few examples, as size and therefore server load matters less.