What Renoise sucks at as a DAW

If you could record, save, and switch between multiple takes in a pattern, that would be amazing. And if notes in polyphonic play could automatically be sorted to be more readable

If you could record, save, and switch between multiple takes in a pattern, that would be amazing. And if notes in polyphonic play could automatically be sorted to be more readable

MULTIPLE TAKES!!!YESSS

I had a feeling for a long time that automatization in renoise sucks but it doesnt…

If you´ve got tablet, touchosc and duplex you can change parameters of any synth (via instr. aut. device) on the pad and it is bidirectional connection so you precisely see what you are modulating.
I prefer it to automap, it is the best “3rd party” way how to set any VSTi by your fingers i know.

I just insert vsti, turn to my keyboard and pad, playing, changing synth parameters, record it without touching anything else, amazing.
(if i could insert effects and instruments via touchosc and duplex it would be even more stunning but i am alright :badteethslayer: )

I had a feeling for a long time that automatization in renoise sucks but it doesnt…

If you´ve got tablet, touchosc and duplex you can change parameters of any synth (via instr. aut. device) on the pad and it is bidirectional connection so you precisely see what you are modulating.
I prefer it to automap, it is the best “3rd party” way how to set any VSTi by your fingers i know.

So standard auto-map automation sucks just because of no bi-directional communication?

I’d like to have this 2-way communication native’ly too, being able to see the leds on my bcr2000 jump when moving through patterns, but my main concern is being able to precisely record knob changes. At the moment the precision recording to envelopes seems to depend on the used pattern resolution / lpb - bpm - pattern size combo and changes are recorded in points. I might be missing something, but I’d like to be able to specify the automation resolution, independent of the used pattern resolution, speed. Really hope to see the automation editor pimped after all these years! :yeah:

Djeroek: You are right even if it is not big problem for me.

Btw. Automap is bidirectional but it creates copy for every vsti with its setting for automap etc. I find TouchOsc and instr. automap device better for my purposes.

some audio interface just won’t freakin work… It’s unpredictable

I still think that the timing of the midi recording in Renoise (at least on macos version) really is quite horrible in comparison to any other major daw. I now compared it again a numerous times (Renoise vs. Bitwig), and yes, very often, Renoise already doesn’t precisely record what you play. There must be some logical fault in the recording logic, I believe. It gets worse with higher latency of course. Maybe it is all related to those lags and audio stuttering you will get in Renoise (I assume due high GUI cpu usage on Retina). These lags really annoy me.

Also I really cannot see a reason, why slider automation recording is line-based. Renoise also supports points in between the lines. Well, for a fluent mouse-based recording, the gui would have to work with stable 60fps, which it doesn’t - even all VST guis are much slower and laggy than in other DAWs. I was blown away when I started to use Bitwig: Practically most modern VST’s GUIs are refreshed with butter smooth 60fps, it really makes a difference in workflow, at least in my opinion. For example, compare a fabfilter or melda plugin on Renoise macos and then on Bitwig. Seems like VSTs guis in Renoise never reach more than 30fps, even feels lower. Whatever the reason is for this (bridging is disabled of course). I assume since Renoise somehow relies on Carbon framework, the os decides to draw all children processes via CPU emulator or so?? I remember that vst guis were fluent on much older macos versions.

I hope Taktik will address at least the fps-issues, and I am happy that he is working on this now.

Maybe it also is time to drop 32 bit support completely. Some plugins I still use won’t work, but I guess I can replace then with others then. I am suggesting this, because UHe also stated something that their GUI slowdowns are related to 32bit / mac 10.7 backwards compatibility. Better set mac 10.11 now as minimal standard.

… Nooo!

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Remember you can always continue to use Renoise 3.1.1.

In the end, there can’t be improvement, if you do not cut any of the outdated features. Your request is a bit like “keep support for Windows XP”, while XP is considered as security hole even by Microsoft. I was fine with 32bit, too, but they decided to jump on the 64bit train. In the recent, upcoming macos, 32bit is not supported at all anymore. It makes no sense to keep this compatibility up. What for, really, you could replace the used 32bit plugins with other (mostly better) ones. It is not that hard to do so.

I agree, dropping 32 bit has to be done for Renoise to move forward

  1. Automation workflow is 3rd worldly.
  2. Batch processing
  3. Timestretching also 3rd worldly
  4. Screen Real Estate is through the roof
  5. The folks who are happy with 2.8 also don’t make anything anything anyone with ears would listen to more than once if at all.
  6. Multi track recording… Yeah that was so 7 decades ago…
  7. Did I mention how bad the automation process is?
  8. Crossfaded loops are of poor quality. Don’t make excuses.
  9. Devs neglected to do even minor updates within the last 5+ years.
  10. Automation is like trying to take a selfie with a Nokia.
  11. Timestretching is like gathering and processing raw materials to build a wheel.
  12. You can group tracks but you sure as hell can’t group instruments… Yeah… There… I said it…
  13. Can’t embed loops
  14. I can go on and on with details.

Afaik renoise doe not have a native timetstretch algo
If you mean the lua script ( akaizer ) , I think it’s great
And if you mean time stretching by pattern adjusting length and the s command ,sure it’s lofi , what do you expect from this method ?

1 and 3 and 10- Yes, if you only refer to the “Automation Editor”. The “Automation” in general in Renoise is wonderful. But that is very sad that the Automation Editor is as poor as “a editor”, when in a tracker like this is tremendously powerful (you can automate almost anything).

6- With Renoise 3, you can do multitrack recording through the MIDI input. Or using tools such as “Piano Roll Editor” (with OSC and MIDI Input). That is, it is possible to record different instruments in different tracks at the same time, if you know how to configure it. Or even section in several ranges of notes of the same instrument to record on several tracks at the same time.

9- The last minor update was 3.1.1, dated February 6, 2017, although it was released later. That is not 5 years. Although the publication was very badly taken. It was announced late and badly. The pity is that there are no more professional programmers involved in Renoise. There is only Taktik, and apparently he is very busy with other things. Renoise is a minor project, so we can not expect big changes.

12- True! The instrument box could be improved here by grouping instruments, by folders, tree style for example, or even by using colors to group. There are only 255 instrument slots. It’s a shame not to be able to classify them. And also the ability to drag and drop the groups, without this influencing the index of the instrument. I do not know, but it is probably the index of the instrument that causes the instrument box to not classify them in groups.

13- Loops? What do you mean? The phrases are loops. And the samples can be played as a loop.

I believe that Renoise only lacks 7 or 8 important features to implement (and the lack of them does not mean “Renoise apeste”):
1- Dramatically improve the automation editor would be one of them.

2- Renoise with vector GUI. I suppose that Taktik will take the easy way and will only update Renoise so that the current GUI (Renoise 3), which is not vectorial, fits several Zooms (125%, 150%, 175%, 200%). I suppose that it will duplicate all the images of icons and textures so that everything is seen correctly (an obsolete technique). But Renoise would be great with a vector GUI. Dreaming is free!

3- Dramatically improve the VSTi treatment graphically. Currently dragging the window of a VSTi blocks the Renoise window (it seems done on purpose). But in a serious program, you expect everything to work fluid graphically. Definitely, Renoise has graphic problems. Small subtle performance drops when changing patterns in playback, when using multiple effects can be seen more, or use tools with various notifiers or timers to track the playback line. They are small things that influence the graphical fluidity that needs to be optimized, probably due to a continued abuse of the use of the CPU “for everything”. Also the textures used (which are BMP images), can graphically influence the tools. And the resizing of some areas of certain panels in Renoise is not fluid. Graphically Renoise needs a good push. It is not possible that, in a powerful PC with a high-end graphic card of last generation and still occurs that graphically there are perceptible jumps “that bother” or that drag a window (VSTi) blocks the Renoise GUI.

4- Another is everything involved with improving the metronome and its control (with 2 effects parameters to change the rhythm throughout the song). As it is now, the metronome can not change rhythm throughout the song, and in a tracker it is very easy to control this with parameters of specific effects. Additionally, a bar of volume in the options of the song and the possibility of changing of sound would be magnificent. All this is easy to implement under the hood. Only lack of will.

5- Timeline in the sequence as an option (visualize or hide). This would be very easy if the current clock was above the sequence (Renoise left column) and larger in size. And you could read the duration of each pattern and the accumulated duration (which is the sum of the durations of each pattern), all this within the sequence (Renoise’s left column). In this way it is very easy to navigate by looking at the duration of each pattern, and then looking at the clock (the clock up) to each line. All professional DAW must have a timeline to control the duration throughout the entire song. Renoise does not have that. And Renoise 3 has a bug in the clock (hours, minutes and seconds, up right), which stops in certain cases (which should never happen).

6- The instrument box to group in the tree, even with the possibility of coloring the groups by colors.

7-Drag and drop the selection between patterns in the pattern editor. Editing between patterns with the mouse is still somewhat complicated.

8-The rest of improvements would go to the API for LUA, which is limited in certain parts that have to do with the control with peripherals, especially the alphanumeric USB keyboard and mouse. But it’s a lot of fun to tell all this.

The rest, I consider it as details here and there, secondary.
But at least here there are 8 important points that could be the basis of a road map. Surely @taktik is aware of all this, but it is good that some users mention it.

For me, points 1, 2 and 3 are very important. But points 4 and 5 are also at the same level. How is it possible that a serious DAW does not allow the rhythm change of the metronome throughout the song? How is it possible that a serious DAW does not have a timeline to control the durations at any point in the sequence? This is basic. Probably point 5 is quite a challenge, more complex than it seems at first glance. Adding this, Renoise could be used to compose original soundtracks, synchronized with videos, for quality documentaries, series, movies or multimedia montages.

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Record more than one audio track for me please. Or at least explain the long journey for the work around haha jk jk. I have Multi track vsts and no I’m not going to overload my computer to have more than one instance of my vsts.

Embedded loops as is in embedded loops. Writes the loop info directly in to the audio file. Sample loaded boom done.

I like the metronome concept.

Let’s see if we are talking about the same thing. I refer to cases like these (using the MIDI input):

  • Use a single instrument (it does not matter if it’s a native XRNI instrument or it’s VSTi, we’re just talking about recording multiple notes) to record notes on different tracks at the same time, for example, on tracks 1, 2, and 3 within a group. This I use it a lot for my piano pieces.

  • Use more than one instrument to direct each instrument on a specific track. Here you can use a single MIDI piano, divide or reassign several ranges of consecutive notes to various instruments, and let each one record on a specific track. For example, direct 4 instruments in 4 consecutive tracks to record at the same time. This can be done with the Chord Builder module of the Piano Roll Editor tool.

  • With Renoise, in each instrument you go to the MIDI section, assign a MIDI channel to your first 16 instruments (16 MIDI channels), and each of them assign it to a track (consecutive or random, whichever you want). Or assign the same channel for several instruments by correctly assigning the range of notes (Start Note, Ende Note).

All these methods are not complicated to configure. But you have to try it once, and for that it is best to use a piano with at least 61 keys, to have at least 5 octaves available at all times.

All these cases can be done correctly with Renoise 3 or with some tool such as the Piano Roll Editor v4. In fact, this tool also allows you to shoot chords or groups of notes played from each piano key, and everything will be recorded at the same time on the assigned tracks, using the OSC, which allows real-time transmission.

If you speak to me of “embedded loops” I think of an iteration “for i=a,b do” within another with some conditions “if (x==y) then” and with some “break” or “return” according to what.

Translating this in audio within Renoise for me is talking about phrases or doing loops within a sample. They are two different things but in the end they are the same, “repeat something” several times until you stop it. Perhaps the concept “embedded loops” I still do not understand it. What does it mean, a loop inside another loop?

This is my last attempt to explain.

Embedded loop is a loop written into a sample so when you load it it will already have a predifined loop by default.

I’m glad you can record more than one midi track at a time. I am strictly referring to audio. Audio. Yes multi track recording audio from a single instrument that has multiple outputs.

it’s painful to read same posts day by day like this.
Why don’t you use your bicycle for DNS lookup or sort of… to create arp table…? No…?

you were way too rude with this statement, with no constructive thoughts whatsoever

man, can you just chill and make some music? show us your music after all, mister should i call you “Errol Garner”?
~ There are many important updated rather than multitrack recording ffs, use daw with features in mind, there are a dozens actually who do that and what not.
Renoise should have XYZ because XYZ daw has it, and it’s a standard XYZ feature… give it a break for real…

This forum is full of people who “expect” something of Renoise (it’s ok to expect stuff like updates, new sampler features, etc, and not to expect implemented melodyne, just because almost every daw has it included ( or some sort of pitch editor)).

I read posts daily (literally every post songs/tips/whatever) but this is really rather anoying…

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‘The happy man’ of jazz was very very good. 5 minutes of quality jazz in action :slight_smile:

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one of the best… among many… :slight_smile:
my point was - he didn’t knew how to read piano sheet, didn’t ask for a new yamaha p115 (black), or for mpc with internal sidechain, or renoise with audio tracks :stuck_out_tongue:

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