Make luvv not war (and pianorollslolz)
You really are just so polite
Bungle
what about a tracker to hold mini trackers is something like that worth exploring ???
Useful things:
- Superior MIDI. I’ve found that not only the clock sync works EXTREMELY well with external hardware, but the high resolution timing and the sync just seem to make things more tighter than other DAWs. For composing, the fact it takes extra effort to repeat a part at least MAKE me want to do less cookie-cutter loop stuff as opposed to Logic, FL or any of that in which I’m an experienced user of both. Even though I may be wrong, since I find that since a tracker has its roots in being the closest to actual machine code, it still stands that there is less software conversion going on between GUI and MIDI code (such as note on/off and parameter control) and to me, I have the opinion that it’s just the more tighter and controlled even if only a little bit.
- Multiplatform with Rewire/Jack. I’ve also found that this is a STRONG point of the latest release in which it’s alot easier to accomplish some sound design tasks that Renoise doesn’t have yet like granular synthesis without the headache of rendering down everything and opening/closing software all of the time. I use FL’s granular alot for drums, pads, and other sounds in which I can then render samples of the sounds, re-sequence, and use traditional tracker effects like retrigger, pitch up/down, etc to make things more interesting. One of my favorite software modulars of all time is ALSA modular, and for open source I find it to sound really gritty and analogish which is really great. Much like Vaz with less mud. With the possible addition of Reason and it’s HUGE sample library and such make for even more extended sound quality and much easier to add realism to things. The way trackers work with samples out of the box with sample editing and such is by far the best I’ve ever seen in ANY DAW and I know 5 to an expert level. (which is not hard, you learn one you learn them all) That being said, I started off with trackers, moved on to the piano roll interface because that was the interface in the software I used, and came back. Tracking taught me loads about how signal processing and digital audio actually work by necessity, perhaps more than I even learned in audio school learning Pro Tools and all of that. (I also agree PT/Renoise=
) It’s also super easy in that respect to create limitations for yourself (sample size, etc) and work within those limitations which is a proven advantage in music.
So there are two things amongst others I’m sure but can’t think of at the moment in which you can’t ignore for “features” that simply make for better workflow as a composer in general. In all honesty, my productivity and efficiency in my studio went up at least 50% because of this great program. I’ve used it on everything for sequencing, to (literally) bouncing vocal snippets and processing them using pitch commands, retrigger, etc and then tracking them back into my DAW again. That being said, I find for myself no advantage to using piano roll in Renoise itself when rewiring another DAW works pretty efficiently and without alot of hiccups. However I do know the advantages it would have to some people, and it would make for alot of novice composers to get into the program, but I think back to the days of when I was 13 and new to all of this and I’m glad I actually learned tracking because it made me more knowledgeable about the technology and what’s really going on as far as how computer based music works.
The point of a Renoise piano roll? I personally have no idea. To me, asking for a piano roll in Renoise is like asking for a beatslicer in Renoise. Sure, it might be kind of neat to look at and play with and maybe it would make life easier for certain individuals, but given the choice I’d rather use 09XX where necessary than mess with a beatslicer, and I’d rather input my notes/effect commands into the tracker sequence directly than play point-click-point with a piano roll.
I also don’t get why people want to be able to see the waveform in the sequence. Is clicking the “Sample Editor” button to view the waveform too much trouble?
This is just my opinion and it’s not good for anyone except me but after using Nuendo, Cubase, Ableton,(plus plug ins) etc for just over 4 years then switching to Renoise a year and a half ago, I prefer trackers and trackers don’t have beatslicers or piano rolls because if you care enough to learn how to use the tracker, you don’t need them. Again, just my opinion.
A piano roll will be useful for editing stuff that has been played in live. For example notes get entered in the order they are played with the slight timing difference, not the order of the notes. So if I’m playing a C major it could come out as entered as G - C - E or E - G - C
" I prefer trackers and trackers don’t have beatslicers or piano rolls because if you care enough to learn how to use the tracker, you don’t need them."
but aodix has a piano roll and i’m pretty sure buzz has beatslicers… they both got an arranger as well but i guess those aren’t trackers then ?
pffffffff <- that’s your opinion deflating itself.
maybe we could make stuff less traumatizing if we could just see it as another view/edit mode for the pattern editor 
harp panel ?
color coded notes…? each octave its own color ? or something to enter chords with… 
I often wished the notes in the pattern editor had some kind of “trail”, until they end or note-off… then there’s the whole audio tracks/freezing thing… so, yeah… I guess all in due time?
Sorry to be confrontational here, and I apologize a second time if you’re being sarcastic and I’m simply missing it, but these seem like features that would make Renoise easier rather than making it more functional or powerful.
Giving different tracks different colours would already make Renoise a whole lot less Matrixy…
yes, perhaps. but also, isn’t ‘easier’ the same as ‘more functional’?
but if you talking about available development time then yeah, i agree with you. priorities do matter. only no-one seems to know what these priorities are. well taktik&co know, for us it’s just guessing
I suppose it depends on who you ask. I find the tracker without the piano roll more accessible and I guess I’m just surprised that more people don’t see it that way.
As for priorities, I would hope there are higher ones than a piano roll… like the ability to change the meter without “mathing” how many steps per sequence you need to get a time signature other than 4/4.
But that’s one of those features that would make it easier for ME, so maybe I’m thinking selfishly here. Piano roll or not, I’m going to continue to use Renoise, at least as long as the possible piano roll is an optional feature.
I can smell Nibbles… 
woah, that’s pretty leet! 
can you also smell if they’re erect?
and what does this have to do with the discussion at hand?? 
Gamepad… Nibbles… FT2…? … No…? 
Crap, I feel old…
YHBT. YHL. HAND.
i did some live jamming with a game-pad inside renoise a while back. xd
it was kinda funny…
really need to make a video of that some day.
I think a piano roll would be quite useful for programming arpeggios for vst synths.
For some reason i find this laborious in the tracker columns - mainly cos i have to enter note offs.
In many instances it would be so much easier to sort musical notes/chords/riffs out on a piano roll.
Particularly with polyphonic/chord arpegio riffs - its a little confusing to overview in (example) 6 or 7 columns in the tracker.
But as its rewire compatible now, its not a problem for me as i sync up to reaper.
I think the only debate is regarding piano rolls priority over other new features and bug fixes.
I’d probaly choose some form of audio support before a piano roll.