What's your approach to resampling?

As we all surely know, resampling is one of the core features in renoise and a great way to explore new territories with sampling and effects. It’s a feature I use heavily and I’m always looking to improve/learn new ways of using it.

One thing that has repeatedly come up is how to use resampling in a track while keeping all samples/tracks tidy. For example, I create Track 1 with a VST synth as its source. Let’s say I add chorus and bit-crush to it and input some notes into the tracker. Now I want to resample that audio and use it as its own instrument. I render to sample and renoise creates a separate instrument slot with the recording. What I usually do is create Track 2 and play the resample there, with no effects as they are already baked in.

My question is, do you guys tend to keep the original Track 1, create Track 2 for the new resample and continue producing? I find myself having a ton of original tracks and then a “mirrored” amount of “dry” resampled tracks with the effects already baked in.

This can get a bit complicated to organize (plus having to mute Track 1 so the original notes do not play, only the resampled ones). I even began deleting the original track altogether and practicing that destructive workflow. But I wonder what other renoise user do.

How do you approach this in your projects? Have you found a workaround?

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I only keep a “backup” of drum parts, in case I need to do changes in the sequencing for any reason. I just minimize the track so it doesn’t grab my attention.

For the melodic parts I stick with the resampled version only. If I need changes I just listen and rewrite by ear.

I simply avoid compression for both cases, since consecutive resamples with compression will eventually cascade into a very squashed sound. I usually turn the compressors off before resampling - unless they’re playing a creative role.

I also use RollingSampler 50% of the time.

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I work very destructively. and I love plugins. Unfortunately renoise can’t handle lots of plugins. so I usually lot up a track with a bunch of weird stuff, record a bunch of material, then delete that track and start writing with the resampled material. Keeps me from clicking around all day in VSTs and going back to change stuff. I also try to have fewer tracks than more by the end.

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no time to properly answer, but take a look at this tool;

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thanks very much for linking this! going to dig in this evening

I don’t resample (VSTs all the way), but when I did it in the past sometimes for some reason, I always deleted the original stuff and kept the resampled stuff. It doesn’t make sense to go with both and I prefer everything to be clean and having a good overview in general.

Renoise? It’s rather your computer, isn’t it? What number is “lots of plugins”? 10, 20, 30 or more? I’ve got an average computer (Intel i5-9600K, 24GB RAM) and I’m mostly using round about 25-30 VST instruments and a lot of effect VSTs per song. No problem at all. And in case you’re using primarily VST3, the performance is even better.

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No its Renoise. I can use whatever plugins I want in Reaper. I crank the latency up on renoise and resample constantly to avoid issues. I use a lot of resource heavy plugins like infiltrator, soothe, and phaseplant. A few instances of vital and phaseplant tend to cause problems if they’re busy patches.

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Ok,that’s strange. Renoise is such a small and compact program, I wonder what could cause this. And I also wonder if it’s the same in comparison with other DAWs. On my previous WinXP 32bit computer I’ve had some performance issues in case I was using 20-30 VST instruments including several instances of Omnisphere VST2, but they’re gone on my current PC. So I wonder how many VSTs you’re usually using in a song. Anyway, being able to use as many VSTs as needed is KEY imo. If Renoise really has got issues handling VSTs in comparison with other DAWs, is there any chance to improve its performance, @taktik ?

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What is CPU usage for that?

What is “that”? In general, the more stuff you use the more CPU power (and possibly RAM, too) you need.

Same here.

Renoise has terrible performance for me and I have a fairly decent PC (Overclocked Ryzen 5 3600, 16gb RAM, RX6600XT, NVME SSD + 3 sata SSDs, etc) . My projects in Reaper can have 16+ tracks with 8+ plugins each and I barely touch 40% CPU usage… No crackling, no problems. I do masters as a “side hustle” and the plugins are all heavy (oversampled clippers, limiters, calibration plugins, analog modeled EQs, linear phase EQ, etc) and they still work as intended in Reaper, with barely any overloading.

In Renoise, however, it only takes a few plugins (or groups, which make it even worse) to reach 90%+ CPU and start crackling. It’s very annoying. I’m forced to resample everything, otherwise I get the Overload notification everytime I hit play.

I’ve been complaining about this for years… I’ve tried all suggestions, even formatting my PC and doing a fresh reinstall. Nothing works except using a sample based workflow with barely any plugins. Enabling the options to use separate processes for plugins doesn’t help either. Changing multicore usage doesn’t make much difference either (I have 6 cores/12 threads).

Good luck not using resample in Renoise if you’re using modern plugins such as Phaseplant, Vital, Limitless, Neutron, smart:comp, etc.

Alternatively, you can turn off all the mixing plugins while you’re editing (compressors, eqs, etc). Far from ideal (or more like a hassle).

Also, I get the impression that using groups and sends tend to have severe impact on performance. However, turning clippers off is not an option if you’re using a bus structure like I do, because it alters the behavior of some plugins that are on top of the chain (specially compressors).

Omnisphere is actually lightweight for me, it doesn’t serve as a good comparison. Try something newer such as Vital or Phaseplant. Try making a song with 5+ instances of Vital… It’s nearly impossible, even setting Vital to Draft mode under settings (1x oversampling). Even in VST3 it doesn’t do well in Renoise (but it’s perfect in Reaper).

Also, I actually have better performance with VST2 for some plugins (mostly the older ones that have been ported over to VST3).

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with my patented 10+ OTT mastering chain, the crackling is a feature, not a bug

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My projects in Renoise usually have around 30+ instrument tracks and always 12 fx tracks, and I’m using at least 20-25+ VST instruments and around 10+ mixing/mastering VSTs. No problems at all in terms of performance. According to the value shown in Renoise the CPU usage is around 55-60% average, And there’s at least 1 send device (up to 5) in every track effect chain (but I don’t use groups at all).

Well, I guess I’m lucky then. I’ve got Sylenth1, Serum and Omnisphere as my “main synths” (they can do everything), and therefore I don’t need to get “newer stuff” such as Vital or Phaseplant. I’m not interested at all in purchasing any more synth plugins. But you never know what the future brings, so of course Renoise HAS TO be able to handle all those VSTs without performance issues. Otherwise it has no future in the long term. And I can absolutely understand your complaints about it. If I would have constant performance issues and I would need to resample all the time as a workaround, I would 100% stop creating music (and hence using Renoise)! So keep complaining about it, I will support even though I haven’t had the same experiences as you.

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12 posts were split to a new topic: VST CPU performance in Renoise vs Reaper

I tend to keep the originals for awhile, and if I don’t go back to them for a bit I’ll delete them. Certainly before I end the session. I do keep original drum tracks though so that I can quickly re-render my drums and just change the instrument in the main drum track, effectively replacing the sample in that track.

I really enjoy rendering something and playing it back on the track I just rendered it from, with all the fx applied still, just to see how it sounds. Rendering something with a dubby delay, then replacing the source with an octave-down rendered sample is sweet.

Mostly I just export stuff, save it for later, sell it, give it away, etc. Sometimes the best samples are the messier ones you forgot you made but sound great in a track. Or, maybe someone can make a better track with the weird things my mind came up with. I’m more likely to just commit to something, render it out and keep going, just as much as I’m willing to go nuclear and start deleting layers that don’t fit with the way I’m feeling.

Sometimes the real trick for me is spreading thoughts out over multiple sessions, or even years. I made a whole bunch of breaks last christmas that I still grind up. I think I need to make an update pack soon :smiley:

Although I have to admit (even if it’s blasphemy) that I mostly use Renoise as a high-powered (or is it overpowered?) sampler. I have other DAWs and environments that I use for specific purposes, but I’m not just constructing an entire track in one. So that might influence my decisions, but I make more stuff this way

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