X64 Windows & Renoise - New Renoise Feature Priorities

Currently I’m setting up a new W7 x64 system. As everyone can imgaine I really don’t like the idea of stuffing this system with all the old 32bit software again, only because my main DAW can’t handle 64bit, specially because there’s not a glimmer of a roughly estimated release date for Renoise x64 or at least the x64 VST wrapper. Well, since I’m under pressure to continue work I had to make a decision and just want to get rid of some thoughts now.

Most times I loved Renoise for its capabilities and flexibility and often I hated it for its lacks and inflexibility. But now, with (actually pretty late) switching to x64 it’s nothing but a completely rational decision to move on from a DAW that would force me to make my new system an old system again. As much as I appreciate the work of the developers team, at this point I have to say: Instead of things like ReWire or a (from a musicians point) useless API, handling 64bit stuff in a most minimal way actually since years ago should have been your primary homework.

I still don’t get the point of putting a feature (like an ambiguous GUI coding API for example) into a DAW that lacks way more important and essential producer and music related things.

What about the unexploited potential of the native XRNi?
What about pitching tracks?
What about FX returns for FX sends?
What about triggering XRNi params from within a track?
What about independent pattern sequencing for each track?
What about enhanced automation curves?
What about pattern independent automation curves?
What about the parameter and value limits for native FX?
What about timing issues?
What about something else than sliders and checkboxes for the GUI?
What about sample exact tracking?
What about automatable EQs?
What about FX-chain containers?

What about 64bit?

Just a few examples that come to my mind and yeah, I know this all means a vast amount of work. Just like a coding API does, that most musicians are never ever going to use, because they use Renoise as a sequencer and DAW, but not as a coding playground. A simple fact is, the core won’t get any better, no matter in how many ways you keep using it.

Well, anyway… I want to say thanks for what I got with Renoise back then. I want to say thanks for all that I learned with and from Renoise and I want to say thanks for what I was able to achieve with it.

Thank you Renoise & bye bye!

Sad your leaving , you made some real wicked dsp chains , thanks for all that
But I bet you’ll keep an old 32 bit laptop around just for reliving those awesome ‘RENOISE’ moments that no other dawn can give you ( including all the flaws )


What about us? © Ministry

You can use Renoise on a 64 bit system you know.

What are you going to be using instead?

@ bit_arts: Good luck with your new system, shame you can’t get the sounds out of Renoise you’re imagining for your music. You have made some great chains indeed so creativity is not a problem.

‘Patience is a virtue’, I bet the team has already looked into 64 bit version or is working on it right now…you’ll switch back surely :wink:

From reading some of your previous posts I already got your disappointment with the last update / scripting in particular. While scripting may be of no use to us musicians straight out of the box, it feels like unwrapping presents at Christmas to me every time a new script enters the tool page. Opens up a lot of new possibilities which I find great.

A lot of your questions address technical issues, like you’re in need of an ‘ideal’ system before you can create your music.

Stuff your system with the tools you need, I wouldn’t worry much about 32 or 64 bit as long as it works (musically).

This reminds me of the time that I emailed Microsoft to tell them that I switched to Chrome.

Oh wait, I didn’t do that, because no one gives a crap.

@ full.o.kitt

actually many people care about 64 bit (or other pro feature’s) , but lets not forget that it’s probably not ‘fair’ to compare renoise to way more expensive music softs… so i say up the renoise selling price and hire some more coders :D … speed up cycles. MOAR.

What essential would 64bit Renoise offer that 32bit does not? I ask because I have ran Renoise on a 64bit Windows 7 for a quite long time and have been very happy with it.

Tell me what treasures I have lost.

Basically, just access to more RAM.

Thanks Jonas. :)

Well, about “patience”… The first Windows XP 64bit version was released in 2002, the first XP x64 in april 2005. That’s nearly 6 years ago. Everyone knows since years x64 is without any doubt going to be a standard.

For the latest update you’re right. It was disappointing to me, because I was expecting something to work with as a musician. I get your point and I agree there are a few useful things done with scripting. But imho something like the scripting host can’t have priority before the really essential issues. In fact the result is quite the contrary and makes things even worse, because extensions like this are built on more and more dependencies on the actually already outdated core. Remember, in parts this core works with 4bit solutions, as for the pattern effects or the number of native dsp params for example. Considering things like this I mean, come on… there’s damn more important things to do than a scripting host, adopting exactly the same outdated crap.

Most of my questions aren’t about an “ideal” system. I guess everyone has his own and very individual imaginations and expectations of an “ideal” system. My questions are just about a more efficient system, exactly having a focus on creativity and music, because with a lot of these things you’re not in need to take care of too much technical stuff and neither too often.

And for the 32bit/64bit thing… would you also be willing to use DOS6.22 and Win3.11 apps with your current 32bit system instead of an up-to-date and already available 32bit app doing the same job? I don’t think so. :)

Makes me feel sorry for you. I hope you’re over it.

That’s only half of the truth. The difference between 32bit and 64bit is also a dynamic range of additional 192db. While this for the first step doesn’t matter for the human ear, it definetely matters for the calculation of heavily processed audio signals, because values that usually would be far out of the 32bit range (causing overflows and because of this being truncated or causing rounding errors and similar stuff) are still available in 64bit to calculate high precisely signals and values way closer to real hi-fi results.

Isn’t Renoise (32bit as well!) doing 64bit operations where it matters internally since 2.6 anyway?

The Linux version of Renoise?

In all seriousness, though, some of us have been around for 10 years. No offence, but according to your profile you showed up in 2010? I’m sure you’ll answer that you’ve been using trackers since 87 or something… Well, so have the rest of us.

These “bye bye” threads are kind of silly. Especially when Renoise is still evolving. The API stuff was done fairly quickly after 2.5. It was also explicitly announced that 2.6 would be OSC and Scripting. This was done because some of the features in 2.5 cycle (MIDI Mapping) depended on Lua; The API was already (secretly) in 2.5, but was finalized for 2.6. Lots or Renoisers benefited from this.

Renoise is a specialized product who’s primary audience is very technically inclined, many who purchased Renoise for the scripting alone. On Windows there are hundreds of music sequencers. There are many who use Renoise in conjunction with another sequencer, or just as a single tool in their toolbox.

Let’s bookmark this thread, see what you say for the next releases of Renose. Cool?

What about the children?
Who think about the children?

Hehe… using a profile from 2010 disqualifies me from having an opinion and using trackers since 1987 doesn’t qualify me to have an opinion. Talking about seriousness… lol Thank god you’re qualified, because of 10 years waiting on the forum. *g

When I wrote the first post of this thread I had my mate on the phone (who btw. licensed Renoise after I recommended it to him and dropped it again only a few weeks later). I told him “No matter how friendly and on topic I’m going to write this, it won’t take too long till the first flamers and smart-asses appear.”. Guess what… !? ;)

That’s not what I said. My point was to emphasize a point previously made: Patience is a virtue.

To me, the smart ass appeared in post number 1.

Thanks for the insults.

Could someone eloborate , what the downside to this might be ?

i’d like to know what you will switch to. hopefully there will be some good news sometime rather soon which will make you come back! cyaz! (=

I don’t get the problem with someone simply telling facts and some reason for a decision. What’s “smart ass” and “silly” with this?

And please don’t talk about “insults”, right after talking about my “silly post”. Seriously, check yourself, man. :unsure:

In fact changing my DAW now will set me back for at least one year to get the same skills and routine with any other DAW. So it might be a good idea to be sure there’s some good reason for my decision, no matter if or how anyone here rates or understands it.

For my own decisions and needs of NOW I can’t and don’t care what other people use Renoise for and how long they’ve been waiting for something. If it doesn’t fit my needs anymore, it doesn’t help that other people are patiently waiting for some other features, too. Right? ;)

The point is there is only 16 values (max F in hexadecimal) available. This means for example an automatable native device can have max. 16 parameters. Otherwise you’re not able to control it from within a pattern anymore, because there’s only one column for the parameter nr. (0-F). Multi-FX usually have way more parameters. Same goes for the number of DSPs on a track (max. 16), sample effects (max. 16) and so on…

Already with 8bit it would be possible to have up to 256 (FF) sample effects or DSP parameters for example. But this would also require one more column in the pattern for each extended part.

So, in practice the 4bit-values are limiting a lot of things and eating a lot of Renoise’s actual potential.