Well the silly thing about your post is that you say Renoise is not giving you want and based on your own idea of the Renoise roadmap you tent to drop it.
I’m with you that Renoise lacks some serious fundamental functions (for me this is more in the midi field), and also was disappointed with the latest release.
But Dac has a valid point, saying this makes many people happy and it’s really no time after 2.5.
And I’ll bet ya, that most of the things are worked on. It can’t all be done in one time.
first you have to pave the path.
So I think you better post this kind of posts in an asking way, when the awnsers don’t suit you, you can always play a sad walk away song and leave.
The thread title e.g. “bye bye!”, a dozen suggestions in one big dramatic exit post instead of posting them, calmly, in the suggestions board.
Basically, inviting flames.
Well, I hope you find what you are looking for.
Many other users on here arrived at the same conclusion and use more than one sequencer. They also put in years of effort, moved on to something else, but still post here and are still part of the community. I can name names. I won’t. It’s tacky.
You are obviously a very creative musician and a respected technical tracker. I’m not trying to squash your opinion. There were reasons for the Scripting API. To single it out as the reason for your problems when there’s been 10 years of developments and the API was, like, less than 3% of Renoise total effort over time…
We’re all in this together. No reason to do a dramatic exit.
I actually don’t want to post something like “I switch to this or that, because it’s way better.”. So I’m not going to talk about this nor I’m going to do any comparison with any other specific DAW. I simply think this doesn’t belong to here. I’m aware I’m still writing at the Renoise forum.
Thanks for the explanation , to be honoust I never really encountered a real life situation where I needed more than 16 devices on a track , but yeah , knowing the developers procedure and how tight lipped they are about forthcoming releases , I am pretty sure renoise will progress and ultimately overwin that barrier too .
I think It’s sad that this thread is getting so negative , if ‘bitarts’ wants to say goodbye and let some things off his chest ( and he did that in a polite way ) , stante pede there will always be some fanboys on the fence with someweak arguments based on so called expertise in the tracker field , 10 years this /that …weak , verry weak .
Renoise is a great program , some are devoted to it for life , some use it just as tool alongside others , some outgrow it and/or can’t gell with it ans move on to the next thing …perfectly fine for me
Respect
I don’t see what’s “bad” in using 32-bit applications on a 64-bit OS, unless you need to address more than 3GB RAM.
I’ve recently migrated too on W7 x64 (on a killer hardware setup)… Still using 32-bit Renoise and VST’s… And guess what? I can still make music with it!
Personnally, I’d rather keep using the DAW I feel productive with, than switch to the high-end stuff I don’t feel comfortable with… All for the sake of a techy marketing argument, namely ‘64-bit’
Moreover, I don’t see the point in “rationalizing” an artistic process…
This is planned you know?, but we assume you want to use both 32-bit and 64-bit plugins simultaneously in Renoise. That is currently one of the only obstacles that require more work to get it going than was used to release a 64-bit only version for Linux.
Ofcourse, if you need a DAW that supports both right now, then by all means, pick one that suits your current needs most. But i would suggest you to keep lurking here on the forums for new upcoming updates.
It is a pity to see you go, considering the nice stuff you have done for this community.
Please answer the question, which x64 DAW are you going to use?
It’s all about ‘workflow’ for me and if you are going to spend a whole 365 days learning something else, you never know the Renoise Team might have sorted all your technical issues by then!
A year? seriously? I’ve never used a tracker before and I’m (reasonably) up-to-speed in 4 months (and I work 14 hours a day)> I even moved from Win7 to Mac OSX
(Fuck knows, why there are no velocity layers…but I (re)purchased Kontakt so as not to inhibit my workflow…but anyways)
but…all this “I’m leaving” bullshit is toy-throwing. Didn’t you do this before by removing all your XRNI recently?
If you’re not feeling appreciated, get a new girl/boyfriend/don’t put into teh internets expecting a ‘prop’ for every download. Jeez, I’m happy if one person says “thanks”. All this feels like “cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face”
I echo this; go and have a beer and chill out for a couple of days
I always thought you were reasonable technically savvy but then why would you come up with such a bullshit statement as this?! The way the numbers are crunched within a PC, whether in 32bit or 64bit chunks, makes no difference to the audio as it can be represented at whatever bit depth (8, 16, 24, 32foat, double precision (64) bit float, straight 32 or 64 too I would image but no nothing that uses it) and this processed and outputted by either a 32 or 64 bit system in the exact same way for your soundcard to understand or hard drive to write the data to disk. Has absolutely nothing to do with processor type of OS architecture/operating bits!
It is a personal opinion and there is no need to post it public, but anyway i`m not sue you at all.
With todays “u must do the all the awesome music faster” its hard to stay with Renoise really, lack of normal beatslicer, stretcher, picther and hell knows what else…
I still on Renoise, because i started with Amigas protracker, and i cant break my vertical music writing approach, i feel very comfortable with it, i chose this. For sure i use a standart horizontal DAWs, like Logic and Reaper, mainly for mixing my stuff, recording bands and mastering stuff, but for writing im with Renoise.
The only thing i wanna say here is dat Renoise will not loose its root/tracker identity if lotsa new things will be implemented like pianoroll and stuff. I dont care about roots, i dont care about trackers and shit like that, i care about the tool, the music writing approach people love to use everyday.
Finally i see a nice solution for devs, just speed up a little the development. Thats it.
We must take the best things from other DAW worlds. That damn beatslicer thing…most ppl waited it sooo long, but in modern DAW its a must-have tool, dont you agree? The stretch-pitch thing too… Yes, there a many geek ways with 9xx commands and stuff, but more i write music, the more i want to leave all those GEEK CODING SHIT behind me.
I hope u`ll not kill me for this soulscream. )
Peace.
and yes, absolutely, 99% of output is still 16 bit at the end.
In ideal world, i would like to take see/have/take must-have things from Live and Logic into Renoise and then, i`m for sure, ready even to pay more $ to devs even.
16-bit = 96 dB
24-bit = 144 dB
32-bit = 192 dB
64-bit = 384 dB
Perception of the human ear is about 120dB from silence to the threshold of pain. This means your ear is able to hear signals from 0dB (maximum) to -120dB (minimum). So 24bit are theoretically enough to cover the dynamic range of the human ear. Everything else beyond these 120dB is headroom for proper/accurate calculations of signal processings. Even if you ouput the whole signal on 16bit afterwards, there’s a pretty good chance your (proper calculated) signal if different from what it would have been like when caculating it on pure 16bit.
I’m sorry to disappoint you, but it definitely matters with how many bits you calculate your signal and specially its processings.
I didn’t deny that, I said the number of bits the operating system is quoted as being has nothing to do with the amount of bits in the audio steam, both 32 and 64 bit OSes can work on exactly the same number processing, just a matter of the way it’s handled. Thus, as far as changing operating system goes, there is no point in quoting anything about audio bit depth!
When the VST(i) is passing a 32bit integer stream to the host it’s nothing but a (maybe already truncated) 32bit integer stream. And passing it from VST to VST for processing makes it lose dynamics, everytime it’s truncated. It doesn’t matter in any way what coder phantasies the OS or the host handles, because the VST doesn’t and 32bit will always be 32bit.
So, give me a break from coders phantasies of 64bit in a 32bit stream. This it getting hilarious.
I must be clueless as I haven’t been around for a while, however, his post seemed relatively harmless and polite to me!
I love renoise, however, I agree with many of his sentiments!
The API/scripting release was supposed to be a small release that turned huge.
What it did was make renoise incredibly robust and extensible,
because they were and are now able to pin point things that were real fuckin hard to find or explain previously.
I do agree with everything in the list of post #1, I find that stuff important too, I’ve posted about almost all of it somewhere around here.
However, there is no avoiding having 32bit software on your x64, you’ll see.
There will always be that one program or dll you can’t live without that never got an update or will never be updated to x64.
I could be wrong, but looking through my program files I don’t think even browsers have made it to 64bit yet.
It’s like when you delete the gigs and gigs worth of samples, to start over fresh, and you have every intention of only using extreme high quality sounds.
Then months later you are using 16bit/44.1khz sample packs you found on the web, it doesn’t really work.
Very true. I don’t claim I’m going to run a pure x64 system and of course there are still programs running on 32bit. And I will also still run 32bit VSTs, when necessary. I’m just not going to install a load of 32bit software which is already available in 64bit versions, just because one host can’t handle them. Actually a pretty normal thing.
True again. But I think now we’re talking about a misunderstanding. It’s not my point to get the highest quality from everything, fighting for each byte of dynamics. In fact for example I prefer 16bit samples before 24bit samples, because they sound more transparent to my ears, specially when being processed. The discussion about the 32/64bit audio signals is only about pointing out the second benefit of using 64bit software, resulting in consistently more hi-fi results and TRUE 64bit streams between VSTs. Not a reason for me to switch to 64bit at all, but just a plain fact beside the adressable amount of RAM.
Imo there is no point to go discussion about 32 vs 64 bit. Its only natural and logical step to go forward and to meet users expectation.
Personaly i dont need it (yet), but there is no reason for me to defend 32bit technology.
or at least some first steps in LUA… but now I’m captivated by your thread 
