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Recommend me a new DAW


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#151 toimp

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 17:25

Bitwig was mentioned several times here. I played with the demo last weekend and i love it. Buyed a licence yesterday. The clip launcher workflow and the note expressions are amazing features for me. The video streams of the musician Polarity on youtube shows perfectly, how good the workflow can be. I'll use it next to renoise :)


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#152 ffx

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 17:52

Uh, isn't v2.0 just on the way in end of january? Will be there a grace period for updating? I don't know...



#153 toimp

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 18:05

There are currently just rumors. I asked the sales team of bitwig. There will be a grace period, meaning anyone buying the current version will get the next upgrade for free. They also said, i dont need to worry :)


Edited by toimp, 09 January 2017 - 18:05.

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#154 ffx

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 18:09

Oh interesting! Thanks.



#155 mclstr

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 18:23

Bitwig was mentioned several times here.... I'll use it next to renoise...

 

Bitwig and Renoise both work well on Linux.

So you know your not stuck with Windows or Mac.



#156 antic

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 08:56

I'd say go for Bitwig. I bought an used license for round about 130 € at KVR Forum. Ableton has probably the better synths and DSP's though and is more mature. On the other hand Bitwig's strength is modulation and midi expressions. For me as a Renoiser Bitwig is much more familiar than Ableton and IMO has the better GUI and workflow. Bitwigs is the perfect mix of Renoise and Ableton features. Also the Bitwig roadmap is interesting (work together with other people via internet and so on).

 

I'd go for Ableton + Max for Live perfect for creating Psytrance. Check out https://www.youtube....PsiloCybianLive best Tutorials by PsiloCybian ..this guy demonstrates the depths of it. Bitwig is awesome too but I think with Ableton +Max for Live together you get way more instruments,effects and really good, useful tools. And Abletons Operator is a universal beast imo. GOod for FM, Acid sounds, Kicks, Bass and all that nice subractive jazz.

 

Thanks guys! After nearly a month of reading manuals, forums, watching YouTube tutorials and toying with the demos for Live 9, Bitwig and Studio One I decided to go for full fat Live 9 Suite and purchased the license taking the advantage of 20% discount which is still available until 11th Jan :)



#157 antic

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:42

Uh, isn't v2.0 just on the way in end of january? Will be there a grace period for updating? I don't know...

 

There are currently just rumors. I asked the sales team of bitwig. There will be a grace period, meaning anyone buying the current version will get the next upgrade for free. They also said, i dont need to worry :)

 

I don't think 2.0 is coming out soon. I also exchanged e-mails with support (Mea, I think?) and from the way she was phrasing it it seemed like it's far off, although she also told me there will be offers for people who bought 1.x license shortly before 2.0 becomes available, so who knows...



#158 trueschool

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 18:41

Would someone provide a link stating where they heard that Renoise Dev is dead? I mean, we just had an update a couple months ago, no? I'm really happy with Renoise and would be bummed if it ended. 



#159 afta8

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 18:59

Relax dude, It's ok.. the reports of it's demise are greatly exaggerated :)



#160 gentleclockdivider

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 20:13

Been playing with bitwig demo .

Damn fine program , only thing missing is a tracker interface :) .

I bloody hate pianorolls 


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THERE IS NO RELIGION SUPERIOR TO THE TRUTH


THERE IS NO TRUTH SUPERIOR TO THE ONE I CHOOSE

C'EST MIEUX D'ETRE BELLE ET REBELLE


QUE MOCHE ET REMOCHE



RUBIO RABIA

 


#161 thalamus

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 22:37

Bitwig.. Live... Reaper... Renoise .. Cubase .. blah blah blah

 

oh energyxt .. blah.

 

whatever. 

 

You are smart enough to power on a PC and fire up a sequencer .. I find it hard to imagine why you might also be whining like a child in the face of a short period of silence here from the devs. Do they owe us something maybe? Do you feel like you have been short changed? Yes? Then why not put down, in black and white here, what those grievances might be .. don't mince words : what is it that you want?

 

Simply type it .. at length .. get it all out into the open .. so that we (and you) might begin to understand where the deficit actually lies. 


Edited by thalamus, 10 January 2017 - 22:39.


#162 antic

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:45

Bitwig.. Live... Reaper... Renoise .. Cubase .. blah blah blah

 

oh energyxt .. blah.

 

whatever. 

 

You are smart enough to power on a PC and fire up a sequencer .. I find it hard to imagine why you might also be whining like a child in the face of a short period of silence here from the devs. Do they owe us something maybe? Do you feel like you have been short changed? Yes? Then why not put down, in black and white here, what those grievances might be .. don't mince words : what is it that you want?

 

Simply type it .. at length .. get it all out into the open .. so that we (and you) might begin to understand where the deficit actually lies. 

 

Who is this question to? Sounds like it's you who's whining...  :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, to answer it - in my case the thing that bothers me about Renoise and that I think will never be resolved is the rigid structure of a pattern, i.e. the fact that all tracks are tied together horizontally, so whenever I want to do an arrangement over time I need to copy & paste or cut the parts in unused tracks, I need to keep track of the automation per pattern (because there's no such thing as global automation) and even within tracks I usually have musical loops of different length: from very short (like 1/8th of a pattern) to very long (spanning several patterns). Considering I don't have a lot of time for my music writing hobby (2-3 hours / week if I'm lucky) it becomes really difficult to actually complete anything, because I simply forget what was where. What I was hoping for Renoise would get eventually is (varying length) tracks detachable from patterns, organised as clips, ideally with separate automation clips. Something like Buzz Tracker's sequencer, but hopefully evolved. I love the tracker interface of Renoise to enter & edit notes, I love the flexibility and quality of internal FX, sample-focused instruments, etc., but as soon as I have my draft idea done I'm getting stuck with this mind-numbing, tedious copy / paste / delete loop that's simply killing my workflow. Instead of just writing music, I feel like I'm doing some esoteric programming or creative accounting. That's why I turned to hybrid clip & timeline -based DAWs (Live, Bitwig), even though VSTi-s or the pianoroll are an alien & foreign concepts for me. I bought Renoise only recently (when v3.1 was published) and will definitely come back to it once in a while, mostly to quickly get some things done that are more complicated to achieve in "traditional" DAWs.

 

Happy now? :)


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#163 radian

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 13:27

Why not use Jeskola Buzz.


Edited by radian, 11 January 2017 - 13:28.

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#164 antic

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 14:11

Why not use Jeskola Buzz.

 

Obviously I did try it (and Psycle as well), but I can't get past the outdated interface, lack of graphical automation, cumbersome integration of MIDI controllers, etc. Also, one of it's definite strengths - the modularity - is a huge productivity killer for me: if I have endless list of available devices, parameters and ways to connect / modulate them, then I'll spend hours toying with them instead of progressing the tune.



#165 herodotas

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 22:58

Why not use Jeskola Buzz.

 

Because LMMS is better. ;)  


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I dont care.....


#166 antic

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 15:57

Because LMMS is better. ;)  

 

Thanks, looks interesting! This thread's actually been a gold mine with Usine's Holyhock, MuLab and now LMMS :)



#167 ffx

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 16:11

LMMS looks like a FL Studio remake to me... Is it? Also I wonder if there is a Mac version available? Just found it  :smashed:


Edited by ffx_away, 12 January 2017 - 16:12.


#168 antic

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 16:20

Bitwig 2 coming by the end of February: https://www.bitwig.c...g-studio-2.html

 

Upgrade from 1.x is USD170 / EUR160

 

:)


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#169 toimp

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 16:34

 

The upgrade is free for anyone who purchased Bitwig Studio 1 on, or after, December 10th, 2016.

 

Everything is fine for me.  ^_^


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#170 gimmeapill

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 17:16

Everything is fine for me.  ^_^

 

The new licensing model is not so cool...

https://www.bitwig.c...ense-model.html



#171 Raul (ulneiz)

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 17:57

The new licensing model is not so cool...

https://www.bitwig.c...ense-model.html

Attractive renewal price 159 EUR / 169 USD

 

Calculator (in €)... 5 years of maintenance + the first (initial licence): 5 x 159€ + 379€ = 1174€ ;)

 

This is called amortization. No comment!


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:excl: Development of my tool: GT16-Colors

 

:excl: My API wishlist R3.1 (updated 24 July 2017):

Spoiler

 

:excl: My Renoise 3.1 wishlist (updated 18 July 2017):

Spoiler

#172 TheBellows

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 18:48

No wonder they manage to update often with those prices.  :panic:

Why are people even people comparing this BitchWig to Renoise and expecting that Renoise should be able to keep up with a money machine like this? If i paid that kind of money i would also expect frequent updates, bug fixes and improved features.



#173 ffx

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 18:53

I wouldn't have a problem, if the Renoise team would switch to a similar licensing model to get some food or freedom to live. Ok maybe not 379 euro for a full version  :badteeth: If we could then assume to get some updates  :unsure:



#174 antic

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 18:54

No wonder they manage to update often with those prices.  :panic:

Why are people even people comparing this BitchWig to Renoise and expecting that Renoise should be able to keep up with a money machine like this? If i paid that kind of money i would also expect frequent updates, bug fixes and improved features.

 

I'd gladly pay extra EUR200-300 if Renoise implemented the clip-based patterns that I described few posts above, because that would be a game changer for me.


Edited by antic, 12 January 2017 - 18:56.


#175 ffx

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 20:32

Well I think the world will change now, after that Bitwig 2.0 announcement. What does matter more than the most sophisticated DAW in life? Bitwig + Redux = dream team. Renoise as a nice tool. Maybe it's time to improve Renoise midi import/export business.