A more practical Pattern Matrix?

Ideas & suggestions
1

There are some threads dealing with Piano Roll and Arranger etc. We can discuss and think a lot of different things regarding those, but either way Pattern Matrix is a feature that already exist and I believe the next logical step would be a more practical Pattern Matrix!

I saw this has been discussed before as well in an older thread which died out, but I thought I could start a new one.

Don’t get me wrong though, the Pattern Matrix is better than nothing but I believe this could be more intuitive somehow. In short, it’s hard - if not impossible - to get a full overview of the entire project and do rough edits with the blocks.

Sorry if I’ve totally missed something, but here is what you can do now as far I’m concerned:

  1. It appears to be some kind of Zoom-feature already, but the differences between the largest and the smallest view doesn’t seem to be that comprehensive?
  2. After you’ve zoomed out to max you can also drag the Pattern Matrix around to it’s maximum size manually as a window. Then you’ll see 10-15 patterns Vertically - corresponding around 1 min music (for example 40 hex-lines per pattern - 125 BPM)
  3. Sure, you can of course hide Lower and Higher Frames as well, then you’ll get a view of like 20 patterns corresponding 2,5-3 min music (with the same above criteria as an example).
  4. Horizontally you end up with roughly 30 tracks if you’re hiding the sidebar too, which is OK but could be better.
  5. Nonetheless, let’s say I was happy with this view… It’s too much of a hassle to even get that ”semi-full view” by dragging the window and hiding things back and forth.
  6. Also, the track names are barely visible which makes the whole idea of the Pattern Matrix fall a bit flat, because you end up watching a bunch of blocks and you then must scroll in the Pattern Editor to just get a grip of what line of blocks belongs to which instrument.
  7. At this moment after the window-stretching the Pattern Editor-Window is too small anyway.

And now on to my thoughts. I’m not saying I have some ultimate solution here, and my pictures are not very pleasant - just rough ideas are presented. See the whole thing more as some seed for inspiration. So here we go:

What I CAN do, as it seems, is to drag the Track Scopes to a quite big size. Track Scopes are cool, but why not have a Pattern Matrix-tab there, like this:

10rjtd4.jpg
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(Perhaps small track scopes could be visible as well)

Or… More preferably it should be a bigger view, perhaps a tab next to Sample, Midi etc:

2z6bcer.jpg
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And, why not making it an attachable Pattern Matrix?

Perhaps this could be done with a horizontal AND vertical view, no matter how it turns out. The horizontal view could be handy to get a better overview of the whole song form start to finish AND to show/edit Track names. In one of the pictures I also presented a subidea to write some quick notes on each track (and the whole song, even if that’s already possible in some other way).

Last but not least, a better zoomability. I think there are plenty of room no matter what, to have much smaller blocks to get a more global overview.

2015-07-12: Did minor edits to the post.

2

I doubt this would be taken into account for a while now with Redux coming out soonish but I agree, it’d be fantastic to see some love for the pattern matrix. This would be #1 on my wishlist.

Your ideas look great as a starting point. I like the horizontal layout pic, and we could indeed use proper zoomability. It’s a bit of a stretch but being able to see multiple automation lanes/clips on the pattern matrix is also a must imo.

After that point maybe more fancy stuff: Different pattern lengths, audio tracks etc etc. One can only hope right? :badteeth:

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+1 for detachable anything.

1 Like
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I doubt this would be taken into account for a while now with Redux coming out soonish but I agree, it’d be fantastic to see some love for the pattern matrix. This would be #1 on my wishlist.

Your ideas look great as a starting point. I like the horizontal layout pic, and we could indeed use proper zoomability. It’s a bit of a stretch but being able to see multiple automation lanes/clips on the pattern matrix is also a must imo.

After that point maybe more fancy stuff: Different pattern lengths, audio tracks etc etc. One can only hope right? :badteeth:

Yeah, I’m one of those who awaits for the Redux!

Thanks for the feedback, and I agree with your additions as well. :slight_smile:

+1 for detachable anything.

I also had that in mind. :slight_smile: And/or customizable layout!

Btw…

I searched through older topics and while there were similiar suggestions, one in particular catched my interest:https://forum.renoise.com/t/my-wishlist-a-few-things-i-hope-to-see-implemented/42441

The audioclip-view at the beginning of this post was EXACTLY I had in mind as well, which would be a great addition to the Matrix!
Horizontal should be the standard view though, in the same way the Sample Editor is horizontal. That would make more sense to me at least.

5

I’m OK with the idea of a detachable pattern window, but I think that a very powerful step would be to allow patterns to have individual lengths and starting points.

This doesn’t sound like much, but it is one of sunvox’s more powerful features, in composition terms.

6

I really like the first one where the matrix sit at the scopes.

I would even imagine they could both be shown at the same time - scopes on top, matrix below.

In R3, most of the time I need more horizontal space. I have a pretty good idea about the “vertical nature” of the song (the overall arrangement), but if and where a particular instrument/track is located is a different matter. Here, the scope layout just makes sense.

Also agree it would be nice to have a more “deeply” zoomable matrix.

I doubt this would be taken into account for a while now with Redux coming out

Well, getting the details right is half the job. And mockups are great at this :slight_smile:

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I’m OK with the idea of a detachable pattern window, but I think that a very powerful step would be to allow patterns to have individual lengths and starting points.

This doesn’t sound like much, but it is one of sunvox’s more powerful features, in composition terms.

Yes, I’d also like to see a regionbased structure meaning shorter or larger blocks. For instance, one might want to glue some blocks together (at least if they are about the same, like a kickdrum) to ease further copying & pasting. Along with other features like waveform and automation-visability. But step 1 should be a more preferential Matrix view in the layout IMO.

I really like the first one where the matrix sit at the scopes.

I would even imagine they could both be shown at the same time - scopes on top, matrix below.

In R3, most of the time I need more horizontal space. I have a pretty good idea about the “vertical nature” of the song (the overall arrangement), but if and where a particular instrument/track is located is a different matter. Here, the scope layout just makes sense.

Also agree it would be nice to have a more “deeply” zoomable matrix.

Well, getting the details right is half the job. And mockups are great at this :slight_smile:

Thanks for the feedback!

Yes, perhaps the next step is just simply a step up on top of the pattern editor. You’ll get a better view of both the overall structure and at the same time a wider view of the pattern info. The pattern editor have been sacrificed a bit too much in the later versions, which is too bad.

On the other hand, the vertical view will be too small (of both PM and PE)if this will be implented unless you can ditch the lower frame. But, this bring my thoughts to a solution for that:

  1. Drag here to adjust the size of upper frame (Pattern Matrix) and lower frame (Pattern Editor).

2.If you want to insert an effect Rightclick here to access a pop-up menu.

3.Doubleclick an insert to pop it up for further edits with the knobs etc.

Inserts could be in a smaller window left to the Pattern Editor (replacing where the Pattern Sequencer is currently), or perhaps the Inserts even could share the same space as Advanced Edtior (by clicking the “Quick mix view” or “Advanced Editor”) but to the left side perhaps. I’ve never got used to insert effects horizontally anyway.

Perhaps the automations could still be accessible as a third, lowest frame, though.

Anyway, just some quick thoughts here…

I saw you had a demosong, so I used it as an illustration, but here the arrangement is around 8x times wider (lol), to illustrate the possibilities!

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What if pattern editor and pattern matrix becomes one? Zoom in and you got the pattern editor, zoom out and get a matrix view. Just a thought. :slight_smile:

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What if pattern editor and pattern matrix becomes one? Zoom in and you got the pattern editor, zoom out and get a matrix view. Just a thought. :slight_smile:

wow!! this is fancy!!!

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What if pattern editor and pattern matrix becomes one? Zoom in and you got the pattern editor, zoom out and get a matrix view. Just a thought. :slight_smile:

Interesting idea, but personally I feel when I zoom in an actual pattern the tick-resolution would be greater instead.

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I made a couple of new pictures, of how I imagine a future version of Renoise could look like. The focus is on the overview of the song, iether with waveforms or with how Pattern Matrix looks currently.

280mp1z.jpg
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**1)**The tracked patterns translated into “Waveforms” (perhaps the waveforms could be displayed iether pre or post with some other buttons!). The current Pattern Matrix is the “Blocks-button”. Which would be great is that you can also edit here, just like in the pattern editor.

**2)**The current view is horizontal (being able to switch to vertical view if that’s more your thing).

**3)**Pattern numbers-display.

**4)**Zoom, just like in the Sample Editor. And if there were more tracks, an vertical zoom as well would be handy of course.

**5)**Playback-display (transport). In this picture it shows the same line as in the pattern editor (everything else, track names etc, is quite synced as well I think).

**6)**Selected track. Lowest frame with inserts is now on the far left to vertically leave space for the overview of the song and the pattern info. You’ll get a better overview of all the inserts this way IMO, just like in the mixer view. Does anyone enjoy adding inserts horizontally? At least, I don’t. Regarding Automations, which also currently is placed in the lowest frame, could preferably be edited in the Waveforms-window with the waveforms being transparent to get better timing etc.

**7)**Plugin-browser. Or maybe the same menu could be accessed by a right click.

**8)**Single or a doubleclick an effect to attach and edit further.

2wqc3l3.jpg
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1. Block-view

2. The current view is vertical.

3. Subidea: A glued block!

The rest is the same as the previous picture.

EDIT - 20150216 10.52 PM: I edited the descriptions somewhat.

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Looking great. I’m normally up for any kind of customization option, but maybe in this case it could be unnecessary work for development as there isn’t much benefit in toggling the view?Wouldn’t it be better to pick one and try to make it work as best as it can?

In any case, horizontal layout seems to make more sense to me as it’s much more helpful for arrangement and waveform displays. So that would be my pref over vertical or dual views. But I’m up for anything as long as it has better zoomability and detachment :yeah:

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Looking great. I’m normally up for any kind of customization option, but maybe in this case it could be unnecessary work for development as there isn’t much benefit in toggling the view?Wouldn’t it be better to pick one and try to make it work as best as it can?

In any case, horizontal layout seems to make more sense to me as it’s much more helpful for arrangement and waveform displays. So that would be my pref over vertical or dual views. But I’m up for anything as long as it has better zoomability and detachment :yeah:

Thanks!

I think the Blocks and Waveforms views will have their own advantages and disadvantages, hence the toggles. But yes, honestly I first had in mind to present a mix of the two views. It could probably be done somehow.

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What if the track info could be toggled between a track in song info and track in pattern infos. I.e. slot-dependent info. Then when you mouse over a slot or something, you’d also see ‘backbeat with added intensity’ or whatever. At the risk of over-documenting everything.

15

I’m OK with the idea of a detachable pattern window, but I think that a very powerful step would be to allow patterns to have individual lengths and starting points.
This doesn’t sound like much, but it is one of sunvox’s more powerful features, in composition terms.

Assuming you mean individual single-track pattern lengths independent of multi-track pattern length, I can’t wait for this, and I’m sure it’s coming. To break away from the multi-track pattern editor to where it would just be a virtual-/visualization of many single-track patterns as they’re arranged in the matrix.

16

What if the track info could be toggled between a track in song info and track in pattern infos. I.e. slot-dependent info. Then when you mouse over a slot or something, you’d also see ‘backbeat with added intensity’ or whatever. At the risk of over-documenting everything.

Interesting, but what will be the use for this? Could you illustrate some examples?

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Interesting, but what will be the use for this? Could you illustrate some examples?

I’m not sure any DAWs have it but in essence it would be like having region- or clip names. So if you have multiple alternatives or variations for the same part or something like that, or if you have parts you’re (un)sure about, you can make a note on how they differ, etc.

Maybe it could work like a versioning system. where for a slot you could right click and switch between different alternatives, like takes for MIDI or audio regions in Logic. Where each alternative had some metadata, like name/comment, status, rating, etc.

Like I wrote it could be over-documenting and -managing. I.e. at the end you’d have names, comments and ratings for each note, automation point, etc saying ‘Too much?!? Enough??!?’ :smiley:

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@jiku: the virtual equivalent to sticky notes :slight_smile:

Really, I wouldn’t want those things all over place. But the idea is one I have been thinking about as well - we have already come a long with something like the Doofer, or the ability to stick complex (parallel-processed!!) effect inside an instrument, basically cleaning up the mixing console a lot. And song sections are alsoa step in this direction.

19

I’m not sure any DAWs have it but in essence it would be like having region- or clip names. So if you have multiple alternatives or variations for the same part or something like that, or if you have parts you’re (un)sure about, you can make a note on how they differ, etc.

Maybe it could work like a versioning system. where for a slot you could right click and switch between different alternatives, like takes for MIDI or audio regions in Logic. Where each alternative had some metadata, like name/comment, status, rating, etc.

Like I wrote it could be over-documenting and -managing. I.e. at the end you’d have names, comments and ratings for each note, automation point, etc saying ‘Too much?!? Enough??!?’ :smiley:

@jiku: the virtual equivalent to sticky notes :slight_smile:

Really, I wouldn’t want those things all over place. But the idea is one I have been thinking about as well - we have already come a long with something like the Doofer, or the ability to stick complex (parallel-processed!!) effect inside an instrument, basically cleaning up the mixing console a lot. And song sections are alsoa step in this direction.

I don’t really understand what you guys are talking about :D, but it doesn’t matter. Perhaps this function you mentioned could be toggled or together with the track inserts? You mentioned Logic Pro, this is actually how it looks there: The current track far to the left. I’m not saying Logic Pro is generally very “logic” haha, but THAT just makes sense to me at least.

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InB4 Renoise turns into Ableton Live.