- Nice mockup, but i personally don’t want that.*If it would be possible to disable the “audio track” features i could live with it.
Actually, the mockup is some kind of extension of another suggestion I made which turned out to get quite popular. It was basically just improvement-ideas for the Pattern Matrix (https://forum.renoise.com/t/a-more-practical-pattern-matrix/43134). But I’m not expecting you to delve into that for this matter, but I think my idea in this topic is more understandable once grasping the idea for the Pattern Matrix.
The idea was that the Pattern Matrix could sit on the scopes, a more comprehensive zoom-out feature and/or have a horizontal feature as well since then you can visualize the whole song from start to end.
Now, back to my mockup in this topic; you can see that it’s quite flexible since you simply just switch from Audio-Tracks to the Pattern Matrix back and forth.
The Audio-Tracks are “disabled” as long as you don’t use it and it’s not obstructed for those who wish not to use it. So with that said, I’m not understanding your “anti-devotion” in this matter?
Note: I’m glad there’s discussion in this thread so I have nothing against that.
Better overview, i think it isaquestion of habituationand maybe also a matter of the project size or kind of project. As sayed before, i understand the use of audio tracks for very large/long projects/recordings/files…like big orchestral recordings, film scoring etc.
Respectfully, I’m quite convinced we don’t have to stretch ourselves to movie-making for the need of Audio-Tracks and/or for the need of a better overview with the Pattern Matrix. :lol:
To make this a bit simpler. Let’s only - with this part of the post - talk about the subject of overview and the problems of the Pattern Matrix in this matter:
- You can’t get a full overview of the song from start to finish, if the song is longer than around 3 minutes and in a BPM of 125.
- Even if you did manage to live with the stretch of the windows and hiding frames back and forth, the Pattern Editor is too small at this stage.
- The zoom-ability is not enough either to get a better overview.
- You can’t glue blocks.
- As an alternative, one might think the PM could be detachable. Unfortunately, it isn’t.
Etc…
Note that we’re slightly off-topic since I just pointed out the flaws of the PM, but still not, since the overview-subject is part of the discussion.
Also, let me remind you that not everyone uses everything a DAW has to offer. Meaning, just because _you_handle Renoise in a way that make other feautres superfluous doesn’t mean the points being mentioned by me and others are superfluous in a more objective kind of way.
I think,if someone is highly accustomed to working with a “traditional” DAW, working with a Tracker is not easy at the beginning. This is because you try to copy yourusual workflow from the “traditional” DAW to the Tracker, which will only workpartially.For me, working with a Tracker is more structured and linear. It is hard todescribe, but the workflow is very different (at least for me) in a good way.
I’m not sure if this has to do with anything? You are talking about the Pattern Editor now I presume and the Pattern Matrix nor the Audio-Tracks brainstorming doesn’t mean to replace this kind of editing nor intrude to that.
Speaking of this though, I’ve used tracker-programs since the 90’s and other DAWs later on. However, as time flies users of DAWs are constantly raising the demands of their DAWs. Otherwise we all would still be using Fasttracker II, wouldn’t we?
I’m personally fine with the automation in the lowered frame. The only thing i would like to see are pattern blocks independent automation curves, that would be nice.
Well, a lot of people tend to think otherwise regarding this. I guess this pinned topic on 11 pages is a proof of that. We’ve presented ideas how to incorporate the automations in a more intuitive way, but I must have missed the arguments of having the automations there it is now. Please enlighten me.
I like the “global” behavior more. Just duplicate the sample and tweak it.
Yes, I prefer this as well. But what I said in the previous post was clearly not a substitution, rather a completion.
You can play and record song from every position, don’t?
I might have missed that. Then having it will just be easier to implement such a feature in a theoretically Audio-Tracks feature. However, the point that I was trying to make was that - while having audio tracks alongside visible - will be easier to know where to do certain recordings.
What do you mean with “post-view”?
After you’ve modulated the sample, applied tracking-effects and processed it with DSP’s the waveform may look a bit different.
It may will…but it also will make things messy…*
Please elaborate. And what about the stars you inserted at the end of a couple of your points?
Yes, that would be awesome! Imagine it would be possible to dock the sample editor to the right side and have it view the sample vertically (switchable between - part of the sample which is used in the current pattern block/full sample). Also the automation could be diplayed vertically on the right side… Gimme those features.
Presumed you were serious now, I wouldn’t mind options like these. But keep in mind that most of the things we do, we are doing horizontally. That said, I believe the vertical behaviour of the Pattern Editor is the best one, since that makes most room for inserting commands, tracking-effects etc. However, to keep the rest of the DAW vertical is just a general misconception and I’ve not yet encounter any decent arguments for this.
Edit: As much as I understand the vertical nature should be consumed by other editing-aspects of Renoise, one should know that having the entire DAW vertical just isn’t as good as horizontal - depending on what you want to do. Hence my suggestion of having certain parts of Renoise switchable between vertical and horizontal.
Yes, if Renoise would feature audio tracks, it may become a little bit more popular, but i don’t think this is the main reason.
That’s true and there are not only this thread, but other threads dealing with ideas like these. The threads didn’t pop up to make the DAW more popular though, just more useable.