Absolutely. Their “comfort zone” is a shiny piano roll, which is the reason why most of them wouldn’t use a tracker. Even if learning is SO MUCH easier compared to back then. But even searching for information or reading information is obviously too much work. People need video tutorials for any shit you can imagine. And many of them need someone who does the thinking for them, too.
I think the focus has changed. Nowadays it’s not about skills, power and performance anymore, it’s about presentation, representation and lobbyism. Look around! People are focussed on maintaining their fake life online and seeking for likes and followers. It’s similar when we talk about DAWs. A bad DAW can be successfull if its presentation is good and vice versa.
Hm, I don’t know in which context. In my eyes it’s great, just like my workflow. But I don’t do special things, I just compose simple things and use VSTs. I don’t want to control hardware via Renoise, play live or else.
There’s always space for improvements. But just small things. You can’t reinvent the wheel.
That´s just what i gathered from others in the past.
Oldschool tracker folks were just smarter
I fully agree. Don´t get me started.
I have been working at a company where 90% of employees were like that.
Members of a generation of spineless pussies and dumb-asses.
They define themselves by how others view them and are lacking the ability to self-reflect on their actions and to think critically.
And it is this critical thinking which keeps one from mainstream hype and brainwashing.
I don´t mean to insult anyone but some take everything personal and feel insulted anyway - no matter how you put it. But that´s another issue.
In generally for the World i go agree with you. But not for specific and concret extensions with functionallitys that have undeniable advantages in some scenario’s like for instance the pianoroll. And this had nothing to do with the people, or the learingcurve. It’s simply because its in many conditions (#notall) the most intuitive and/or most productive way (in other words the best way) to make music. Thats the point. And Renoise will be even a tracker. Thats why i dont understand the people always crying about adding pianoroll. they loose nothing. They can further work like they always do. No one forced they to switch on Pianoroll use. But if she accept Pianoroll simply as a further possibiliy, she maybe get notice thats she is usefull for here own work too.
The problem is that thinking presupposes intelligence, and obviously mankind is losing its intelligence. The most are already parroting sheeps and it gets worse and worse.
You’re absolutely right! You can’t please everyone. It’s like Renoise, which can’t please everyone, too. So what?! The ones who doesn’t like it should move on, and the ones who appreciate it will definitely have some fun creating easily cool shit with it.
That’s just blatantly not true,renoise has changed vastly since I first used it,so many things added and built upon,it’s crazy how much has been changed,I’m not against adding a piano roll.But getting rid of the hexadecimal tracker soul would be disastrous.I would immediately use another tracker.
This line says me thats i’m right with this writing
It is exact that what i had described. How the hell you came to this unrational apprehension?!
Will it change the way how others working with Renoise? → maybe
Will it change your way to workk with it? → Nope! YOu dont need to use it (the Pianoroll).
Will it change the hexadecimal tracker soul from Renoise? → Romantic and unrational perception. It’s a Software. It has no soul. It had a specific startup concept beforce a long time. And how every Software too, it has to changing and questioning, overthinking and adjust his concept with every new development cycle.
Stopping this process to saving the status quo means the software is dead or will dying in the future. (when all the Elitetracker users are to old, are gone, or has no more time/pleasure to makke music…)
Maybe the Developer say’s… “there will never be a Pianoroll” Ok, its his decision. But if you ask me “is this good for the software?” I must say… “No!”
Why? Because many Renoise users requesting for it.
I was never an oldschool trakker, but started on hardware with step sequencing, which is fairly similar. After using piano rolls for many years, then switching to renoise some years back, I’m hard pressed to see wherein lies the advantage with piano rolls. It’s more visual, yes, and some people are more visually oriented, but there are plenty of DAWs out there, and now, tools for renoise that offer that functionality if it’s desired. If you want a baked-in piano roll, there are plenty of options out there for you.
Renoise will probably always be a niche tool, and that’s fine. Many users request many features that will never make it into development, and that’s fine, too. If I had my druthers, the software would offer a lot more by way of synthesis, but I have zero expectation that development will cater to my desires, lol.
I say, be grateful for what we’ve got… A super-functional audio environment for cheep!
Whatever we get in the future, assuming development continues, will be gravy. Delicious, digital gravy. If OP isn’t feeling renoise, that’s all good. Most of the rest of us are, and we get to enjoy the benefits of what already exists, in addition to whatever direction @taktik decides to take the software in.
Plus, if you’re dissatisfied, you can always write your own software
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a native piano roll, I just don’t care if we never get one. It’s hardly an emotional reaction to suggest that you bark up the right tree if a piano roll is important to you. They’re out there if you want 'em!
There might be good arguments for the inclusion of a piano roll, i.e. greater accessibility, facilitated harmonic progression composition with limited user theory knowledge, visual approaches to composition, etc. But, there is at least one good argument against the development of a native piano roll, too, that being that it would detract time and energy from other development that is more deeply aligned with the core vision of renoise as a tracker-based approach to a DAW. Development time/effort is a finite resource, and maybe a piano roll isn’t a high developmental priority. Maybe it is, we’ll see, but I’m not holding my breath for one, or for the next release, or for any of the features I do care about. I’m just busy writing music.
Try Renoise Tools subforum to do extra things you want to do? There’s quite a lot of flexibility in the program with those, it seems.
Piano Roll gets updated frequently, and looking at the development over time is very interesting. Some functions get added over time, and while yeah, it’s not built in-- that’s what the plug-ins features are for.
Although I more agree with your point of view, but I think that this user meant that the target audience is quite wide. The piano (albeit virtual) is a hobby that can be enjoyed by people with very different professions or demographic characteristics. The portrait of the target client is likely to be difficult to describe, because the audience is really very wide.
as far as i remember my first week with renoise is more like " havent even scratched the surface i guess, its all so weird, but cool. at least i got my first loop goin"
and i went on using it and "even scratched " after 6 years i consider now the understatement of the century.
“in russia…a week is nothing”
and as a user i dont get that deluded compulsion about “targeted customers” at all. looks like everyone nowadays is obsessed of being an economical/financial expert tryin to optimize YOURSELF and the PRODUCT to max out the benefits or what?
i dont give a shit about other customers.
i have tested renoise, i bought renoise, i use renoise for making weird stuff. works fine so far. and if others have some important stuff to add, well fine appreciated, i use that too.
“With all that Big Willie talk, hop, you’re, playin’ yaself”
You are right. I won’t make that mistake again. Don’t want to bother the stuck community. Have fun with your old dead soundtracker. I have so much fun with other DAWs and those new features that fall each month.
@taktik : please remove ALL my posts in ALL threads, thanks!
(even if that breaks some useless talkings, I don’t care about it)
…But he is coding right now…! This leaves an unfair impression, why are you such insulted? I would miss your (non-insulted) posts You can start the next mutant breaks compo yourself, or ask for support here first. Since it was the “most unorganized compo” on the planet, it needs at least a bit organisation first, and won’t arrive alone by itself…
That’s some senseless stupid childish whining, I’m sure you can do better than that. You don’t care about Renoise and this forum, that’s fine. I’m sure @taktik does, and you want him to destroy content of the forum because you’re pouting for whatsoever. Grow up, dude!