This was enlightening
source 17/11/2010
To be fair I looked up most popular languages spoken on the net.
http://whoyougle.com/texts/most-popular-languages
German does rank 7th.
or according to this site, 6th
English coming in 1st with both.
Xenophobie ist laut Wikipedia, Fremdenfeindlichkeit.
Ich habe keine Ahnung warum du das in die Diskussion bringst?
Das ist vollkommen überzogen und ich lasse mir das auch nicht unterstellen.
Ich habe eine berechtigte Frage gestellt und muss nun mit einer Diskreditierung kämpfen?
Das kann es nicht sein!
Noch einmal. Ein deutschsprachiges Subforum wäre eine gute Ergänzung zu dem bestehenden Forum.
Look, I’m not trying to start shit.
I obviously wouldn’t be replying in any German forum using Google Translate. I’m just doing it in this thread to show that at least some form of communication happens. My french speaking friends find support among their peers, not in an anonymous forum.
Let’s imagine someone from Hungary logs in and posts “Hey! I registered but didn’t get my password? Also, my credit card was overcharged a thousand dollars…” and no one on the Renoise team speaks Hunagrian, but there’s a Hungarian forum there because “we support all languages”. We look like dicks.
Or, 100 germans post 100 of these types of questions a day, and the only guy who can answer them is Taktik, so instead of developing the software, he’s doing support because all the other germans in the forum cannot help… Or, more realistically, log in once a month and the support sucks.
I don’t see how this is a good idea.
Do me a favour and re-read my replies.
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A forum for “other languages” with a disclaimer that says “the support may suck, use english”, I agreed to.
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Too many languages is chaos. There’s only 1 active german on the Renoise team (who speaks english…), and he’s busy coding Renoise. It’s not cost-effective.
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I encourage you to help your friends. Start a user group. If you’re the guy who will be replying to them in the forums anyway, why can’t you email them?
Foreign manual isn’t going to work without dedicated folks that want to translate it.
Made one attempt with Italian and one attempt with French. The only success is Sato’s Japanese manual because Sato is dedicated to do his part of the job (and he also answers Japanese questions from JApanese users). All the others who attempted weren’t too motivated to keep up. It was ofcourse a hell of a job to catch up back then.
The current Renoise Manual contains much less information, but also much less unnecessary overhead information that was in there.
But to keep on topic, a subforum for a different language is not feasible for other reasons: Search and refer.
With a different language forum, you get a lot of the same questions back that have an answer on the English forum, but yes, you cannot refer to it, simply because it ain’t written in German.
Also German people search for clues in German, and miss out on a lot of valuable information because there may not yet be a German topic containing the answer.
I sometimes get questions in Dutch, but very, very rare… (Most Dutch folks manage English pretty much as their second native tongue)
What was the world rule again? “English or Die”.
I have to repeat it again:
CREATE GERMAN RENOISE USER GROUP
I am quite sure lots of people will back you up when you manage to establish a viable one… Including people from the Renoise team, including myself.
My english is everything else than antifail-proof but that’s rather why I’d like to stick to english boards in order to improve it.
Why should always other improve? Improve yourself and you might be able to get/learn and dive in, in what you want.
Hence: german subforums -1
oh… I’m german as well.
Personally i dont think that a forum will improve language skills. For this you must take real teaching and best talk in real life with people who talk it natively. This will help to cut the most mistakes that here are around, by people like me who dont manage well to post in english.
The result for my request is clear and … ich bin enttäuscht wie hier argumentiert wird. Es wäre technisch machbar und eine Hilfe für die, die wirklich schnelle Unterstützung in der Muttersprache brauchen. Das muss ja nicht einmal stark umfangreich sein. Eine dezentrale Gruppe irgendwo im Web, wenn das doch eigentlich hier hin gehört? Manchmal … 
I think if anything we should level the playing field and make Esperanto the official language of Renoise 
I can only understand AWSTRAAAYLIEN, so I have no idea what you’re all talking about. 
Drž hubu, ty idioti! Snažím se meditovat o Renoise zde! A věřte mi, všichni mluví o tom, že není pomoci!
Počkejte … Co?
Koho to zajímá? Já ne.
Špatný překlad PRAVIDLA!
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Shut up, you idiots! I’m trying to MEDITATE about Renoise here! And believe me, everyone talking about it isn’t helping! Wait… What? Who cares? Not me. BAD TRANSLATION RULES!
Cenzura … kdo ji potřebuje?
VY jsou nepříjemné!
Ale já jsem taky!
檢查 …誰需要它？
你煩人！
但我也！
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Censorship… who needs it? YOU are ANNOYING! But I am too!
In that case there should be a forum for every language (Swedish in my case) too. And to prevent they get out of hand just make someone that knows that particular language to moderate it.
On the other hand, there’ll probably be a lot of different forums if all kinds of languages are supposed to be supported.
Nicht ganz richtig, aber jedoch meiner Deutsch ist nicht so gut wie gut Deutschers sich selbst erklären können.
(Es ist jedoch besser dann was Google Translate mich vorschreibt in die meisten Fällen.)
Aber ich verstarke damit Conner seiner punkt das wir fals Team nicht die richtige eindrück ausbilden wenn wir nur manchmal frage beantworten und wenn es auch noch in einige Fällen, armen grammatik enthält.
Meiner forum tag sagt: Renoise Support Staff (EN/NL). Jeder person kann sehen das er mich im Englisch und Niederlandisch ansprechen darf. Und das ist bis heute noch nimmer ein problem gewesen und das soll in die nachfolgender Zukunft kein problem sein.
Bei allem Respekt, jedoch ist dein Text nicht leicht verständlich. Wenn es dann zu kniffeligen Beschreibungen kommt, ist es manchmal dann doch sinnvoll wenn jemand darauf antwortet, der die gleiche Muttersprache spricht.
Natürlich ist mein Deutsch selbst als Deutscher nicht perfekt, dennoch bei weitem klarer wie es bei deinem Versuch sehr deutlich wird.
Mir geht es einfach um die Benutzer die überhaupt kein Englisch sprechen, oder nur in einem sehr begrenzten Umfang. Mir kann es persönlich egal sein, jedoch klammert man so auch potentielle Kunden aus.
Support ist nicht gleich Support … schade eigentlich das hier gemauert wird. 
Nachtrag:
Morgen treffe ich mich mit einem Freund, der nach meiner Renoise-Demonstration eine Lizenz erworben hat. Ihm hat das super gefallen, kommt jedoch nicht wirklich weiter, weil ihm unter anderem auch eine deutschsprachige Anleitung fehlt.
Bambooli, what are you asking for?
If VV’s support isn’t “german enough”, how do you expect a german forum to help if no one from the Renoise team is available to speak “good german?” You will give support? Other users?
…that’s called a user group.
this is surprising for me: each time i have been in germany, the people i met knew english pretty well; i thought germany didn’t have such kind of problem with citizen having a pc and an internet connection. Italy has it adnd it is no surprise to me at all.
we actually have a small benefit here: Dutch people are taught German in school. that’s why i can understand most of what was written in German above. this means that, seeing that Vv is Dutch, he can indeed give support in German when this is absolutely necessary. that way, a German user who’s English is not that good may post his question in both languages (as suggested before), thereby gets to learn English a bit better in the process, and everybody’s happy.
as was also mentioned before: Bambooli, feel free to translate the manual into German. i’m sure with a little help from the forum you could make a pretty good translation that will suit some German users up to a point. seeing the software is in English, they will, in the end, need the English manual at some points anyway, and those can live side by side. do your translation, make a forum post under ‘beginners questions’ and request for a sticky. you’re done.
This thread is now ridiculous.
A dozen people have offered to help your friends, proposed solutions on how your friend’s could be supported, even told you if they really need help ask them to post in german and no one will complain, everyone wants to help your friends!
Instead, you are asking for special treatment.
Vielleicht könnte man die Idee auch begrüßen und sich hier bei den Benutzern erkundigen, ob es Personen gibt, die bereit wären ein Subforum zu moderieren. Das scheint mir hier jedoch nicht willkommen zu sein, damit alles so bleibt wie es ist, nicht wahr?
Das Ergebnis ist eindeutig mit weit über 20 Stimmen gegenüber gerade einmal 5 Stimmen für diese Idee.
Ich denke das Thema ist durch. Es war nur eine Idee, mehr nicht! Das hier so ein Wirbel entsteht, wer hätte das vermutet?
Nachtrag:
Ich würde anderssprachige Subforen begrüßen, auch wenn ich dort kein Wort verstehen würde. Hauptsache die Benutzer können sich in diesen Foren effektiv helfen. Das ist hier der Unterschied.
Ok, well this is my last post in the thread. Sorry if I am posting loudly and with vulgarity . I live in a French province of Canada. Although I am fluently bilingual, many people in my province are exclusively French speaking. I understand the issue, but also understand “special treatment” since the rest of Canada speaks English. Here’s my executive summary:
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Other users speak other languages. Everyone wants to help. That’s not an issue, I hope? We have a real community here, and the compromise is English.
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As of today, if your friends need help, they can ask in German. Put [German] in the subject, for example. No one objects to this. No one ever has.
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I am for “other language” forum, but I see how this will cause problems.
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Other Renoise Team members, higher ranking than me, disagree with me.
Best regards.