How do you handle percussive samples with a lead in? (e.g. a snare wit

Help, Support & Bugs Beginners Questions - Renoise
1

Is there a way to easily and smartly sequence percussive samples that have their rhythmic “hit point” at a different location than the very beginning of the sample? For example a snare sound that has a reverse WHOOSH before the actual SMACK. In order to make samples like these work in time with the song and the other drum hits you usually have to fine edit them into place with different shenanigans. In some DAW’s you can just set a sample snap offset and they are snapped into place.

How do you guys handle working with samples like these?

2

Is there a way to easily and smartly sequence percussive samples that have their rhythmic “hit point” at a different location than the very beginning of the sample? For example a snare sound that has a reverse WHOOSH before the actual SMACK. In order to make samples like these work in time with the song and the other drum hits you usually have to fine edit them into place with different shenanigans. In some DAW’s you can just set a sample snap offset and they are snapped into place.

How do you guys handle working with samples like these?

You can use " Slice button" in the sample editor to mark the firing start at any point several times without editing the sample:http://tutorials.renoise.com/wiki/Sampler_Waveform

“Activating the Slice button will change the pointer to the Slice Marker Tool. With this you can left-click on the waveform to slice it into different sections.”

You can also use the Keyzones for percussion instruments, assigning each note a certain sample.With each sample, you can add a separate effects chain or modulate the sling.

3

You can use " Slice button" in the sample editor to mark the firing start at any point several times without editing the sample:http://tutorials.renoise.com/wiki/Sampler_Waveform

“Activating the Slice button will change the pointer to the Slice Marker Tool. With this you can left-click on the waveform to slice it into different sections.”

You can also use the Keyzones for percussion instruments, assigning each note a certain sample.With each sample, you can add a separate effects chain or modulate the sling.

I think I probably didn’t explain myself clearly enough.

Imagine that you have one bar of 4/4 music.

On hit 1, you have the bassdrum

On hit 3, you have the snare.

You sequence C-3 on hit 1 for the bassdrum and C-3 on hit 3 for the snare.

But the snare sample does not have its “hit” in the start of the sample, where playback is started but has a reverse reverb whoosh sound before the smack of the drum. In the sequence you entered the whoosh starts on hit 3 and the actual snare is late, because the hit is 200ms after the start of the sample/slice.

Is there a way to keep the snare on hit 3, but have the actual hit on time. In other words, is it possible to have the sample smartly start playback BEFORE the time of hit 3 actually occurs, so the whoosh comes before the hit as intended?

4

I think I probably didn’t explain myself clearly enough.

Imagine that you have one bar of 4/4 music.

On hit 1, you have the bassdrum

On hit 3, you have the snare.

You sequence C-3 on hit 1 for the bassdrum and C-3 on hit 3 for the snare.

But the snare sample does not have its “hit” in the start of the sample, where playback is started but has a reverse reverb whoosh sound before the smack of the drum. In the sequence you entered the whoosh starts on hit 3 and the actual snare is late, because the hit is 200ms after the start of the sample/slice.

Is there a way to keep the snare on hit 3, but have the actual hit on time. In other words, is it possible to have the sample smartly start playback BEFORE the time of hit 3 actually occurs, so the whoosh comes before the hit as intended?

I’m sorry I can not help you here. I do not quite understand the example.What do you use, a VSTi or an XRNI instrument with several samples (a percussion kit)?Where do you want to control the delay, in the pattern editor, in the sample editor?

There is a simple way to delay a note or a complete note column in the Pattern Editor:

  1. Using the delay column of each track(for individual notes, inserting delay parameter).
  2. Using the delay of PRE in DSP pane (Below the Pattern Editor).

To control the firing of each sample, it is best to place the notes separately, each sample on one track, This way you can advance one track at a time with a range of + -100ms,and adjust the times between samples.

If you mean rectifying a sample shot from the sample editor, I think that’s not possible.Can you show some graphic example, with some image?

5

I never had to deal with samples like these, but first thing that comes in my mind is to split the samples in two parts: the “woosh” and the actual smack.

Like this you can easily trig the latter as usual, as a normal percussive sample, while the former will be placed just before.

And maybe you would finetune its position with a delay command in order to “reconstruct” the original sound.

Hope it helps :slight_smile:

6

Yeah, I guess what I’m referring to is not really possible in renoise.

Having the sample split (and other workarounds) get the job done but you run into big problems if you for example change the tempo of the song later. After a tempo change all the delay ms values you’ve painstakingly entered don’t match anymore and you have to manually fix.

The easiest and most elegant solution to this is just a sample-specific delay parameter that would allow you to fire off a sample X amount later or earlier than when the note on command gets parsed for every note automatically. (so the delay parameter would be hooked to the sample itself, not the note on command).

7

I think I understand what you mean and it is possible but it’s a case of trial and error and putting note as far back as it needs to be. Once you know how many lines it needs it’s not a big deal really. At least that’s the way I approach it although I usually encounter the same kind of thing with reverse cymbals and sounds like that. Never played with tempo changes though.

8

^What Meef said, you need to estimate the amount of lines up in the pattern editor (maybe additionally set delay column values for finetuning as well) you’ll need to place the note event. What helps is setting one of the rulers in the sample editor to beats, so you can sort of calculate the amount of lines it takes before the transient hits the spot you want to sync to. Manual work in any case, but once figured out easy enough to copy throughout imo.

There have been threads on this in the past;

https://forum.renoise.com/t/note-align-sample-hit-point/32368

https://forum.renoise.com/t/sample-snap-to-beat-point/23663

https://forum.renoise.com/t/pre-played-samples/16296

I searched for cymbal as reverse cymbal is what most people would miss such option for :D, but I bet there’ll be a lot more threads on it.

9

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/yala/9mustool.htm

Manually calculate one pattern length into a length of time using this site. Then use the result to manual chop, draw, or copy & paste one shots for synced delays hits.

For example:

Take a 4/4 beat with:

  • BPM: 160

  • LPB: 24

  • Pattern length: 96

Now use the equation: Seconds = (Bars x 240) / BPM. [Bars is the same as pattern length]

[240 = 60 seconds per minute x 4 beats per bar]

So: Seconds = 1 Bar x 240 / 160 = 1.5 sec per pattern length

Now to find out the length of each individual line in the pattern you have two options:

  1. Simply keep halving the time down to figure out the times of each pattern lenght

96 lines = 1.5 sec [1500ms]

48 lines = 0.75 sec [750ms]

24 lines = 0.375 sec [375ms]

12 lines = 0.1875 sec [187ms]

6 lines = 0.09375 sec [094ms]

3 lines = 0.046875 sec [047ms]

1 line = 0.015625 sec [016ms] <— 1 line is not 1/2 of 3 lines, but actually 1/3

  1. Do percentage maths equation

96 lines = 100 percent

96 / 100 = 0.96 [1 percent]

1.5 sec [1500ms] = 100 percent

1500ms / 0.96 = 15.625 ms

So 1 line in the pattern length [with these BPM, LPB settings] works out to 15.625 ms [or 16 ms if rounded up]

Now that you know the length of 1 line, you can just multiply it by however many lines you want to reach the desired amount of delay lines before the snare hits.

Reverse reverb for 5 lines = 15.625 ms x 5 = 78.125 ms

Snare hits on line 6 at 78.125 ms.

I’d just paste the reverse reverb and snare hit into the sample editor, and then manually chop, copy, and paste it using the timeline above the sample to keep track of where each hit is in terms of ms.

Not sure if that’s exactly what you’re looking for in terms of an answer. But maybe it’s a help none the less.

10

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/yala/9mustool.htm

Manually calculate one pattern length into a length of time using this site. Then use the result to manual chop, draw, or copy & paste one shots for synced delays hits.

For example:

Take a 4/4 beat with:

  • BPM: 160

  • LPB: 24

  • Pattern length: 96

Now use the equation: Seconds = (Bars x 240) / BPM. [Bars is the same as pattern length]

[240 = 60 seconds per minute x 4 beats per bar]

So: Seconds = 1 Bar x 240 / 160 = 1.5 sec per pattern length

Now to find out the length of each individual line in the pattern you have two options:

  1. Simply keep halving the time down to figure out the times of each pattern lenght

96 lines = 1.5 sec [1500ms]

48 lines = 0.75 sec [750ms]

24 lines = 0.375 sec [375ms]

12 lines = 0.1875 sec [187ms]

6 lines = 0.09375 sec [094ms]

3 lines = 0.046875 sec [047ms]

1 line = 0.015625 sec [016ms] <— 1 line is not 1/2 of 3 lines, but actually 1/3

  1. Do percentage maths equation

96 lines = 100 percent

96 / 100 = 0.96 [1 percent]

1.5 sec [1500ms] = 100 percent

1500ms / 0.96 = 15.625 ms

So 1 line in the pattern length [with these BPM, LPB settings] works out to 15.625 ms [or 16 ms if rounded up]

Now that you know the length of 1 line, you can just multiply it by however many lines you want to reach the desired amount of delay lines before the snare hits.

Reverse reverb for 5 lines = 15.625 ms x 5 = 78.125 ms

Snare hits on line 6 at 78.125 ms.

I’d just paste the reverse reverb and snare hit into the sample editor, and then manually chop, copy, and paste it using the timeline above the sample to keep track of where each hit is in terms of ms.

Not sure if that’s exactly what you’re looking for in terms of an answer. But maybe it’s a help none the less.

Yes, this is definitely a way to do it. Thanks! A bit too time consuming and anti-workflow for me, maybe, but a solution.

Was glad to see those other threads about the exact same thing. Worthy feature request imo.

11

if your sample is played back at its “neutral” speed (i.e. always a pure c-4, whatever key that is mapped to), you can set the sample waveform window to “beats” by right clicking the top or bottom rulers. Then you can insert and/or cut silence until the main transient is aligned with the number of lines/beats you start the sample from ahead.

This calls for a tool to auto-sync samples by inserting the right amount of silence after marking the transient, and auto-generate the shifted-ahead pattern data from a dummy track where you sequence the whiplash hits “in time” with an inaudible dummy instrument. And…reverse crash cymbals feel so 90s.