Ah thanks for this info. I thought groove was done using tempo change. Ok so I was wrong.
Why that? In ms-mode, the envelope should sound the same with any tempo, just like a VSTi, a.k.a. sample accurate.
agreed. it should! at least then, when you’re syncing the envelopes to milliseconds and not to beats.
i have no idea why renoise treats instrument envelopes tempo-based under the hood when not beatsynced - i merely knew that it has always been like that, so i took it as given ever since.
should not be a problem as long as you dont change the tempo throughout your arrangement/song.
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As a little sideline…just mention Renoise ‘Global Groove’ there is a visual calculator tool to try help with what those 4 sliders are doing → Global Groove - Documentation / How does it work? - #4 by dblue
Thanks^.
There is a ‘shuffle’ percentage setting in the phrase tab of the instrument editor, how does this swing option compare to the global groove? Must say that I haven’t used the shuffle option much other then testing, but always have a hard time getting something that I like with the global groove sliders, so will try shuffle for ease of use. At least it is one slider 
.
Not sure but I assume that setting shuffle % in a phrase is like setting all 4 sliders in the global groove to that %(?)
According to some pictures on this the link provided earlier in this thread: Global Groove - Documentation / How does it work? - #6 by fladd - renoise never hits exactly 58% of a drum machine swing, but a floating point percentage near it? Might this be the reason I don’t like the swing in renoise fully? And if it never hits that exactly, it most likely never hits most anything in exact percentages either?
And (to clarify) further down that thread you’ve taken into account this(?)
After closer examination of all these programs:
FL Studio’s swing
Renoise differnet swing types
Reaper’s own swing
and
Reaper with a script called Hacky Tracky (that I stumpled upon during a visit on this forum) that I then run trough piz midi swing vst…
…I’ve come to realize… They’ve all got their own type of swing it seems. And the oddball is in fact FL Studio. It is VERY different from all the others. It “takes out the curves” a lot more than the rest of the bunch on every other 16th note. And I LOVE it.
I thought I’d be in heaven with “proper” swing (if there now is such a thing) once I got piz midi swing going, because it had so many sliders to shape the swing. BUT NO; it does not swing the way to make my body and brain happy like FL Studio does.
I said earlier in this post that Reaper had better swing than Renoise, but I take that back.
Too bad Hacky Tracky is a script and not a vst, because then I could’ve loaded it into FL Studio.
I’ve come to accept that Renoise and other Daws do not have FL studio swing, and started messing about with a delay value of 62, which to me is the sweet spot of a swing
So I won’t get the sexy FL studio swing, but hey, it kinda rocks anyway once you stop nitpicking, hehe.
Btw; is there a tool to alter already entered delay column values more easily? So I can have a different swing on each track? Would be great.
We all know renoise envelope are far from sample accurate , ;not even millisecond accurate
It’s the only thing I hope they fix sooner or later
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I’ll just say that with the example that Spritzy gave with FLStudio at 58%, for all intent and purpose I can’t tell any major difference or magic with the example. I selected a delay column value of 2B. Or use global groove at 25%.
My test xrns:
flswingtest.xrns (512.7 KB)
A little thinking out loud over something I noticed…
While I was doing a little research with ‘groove’ in Renoise I came across a post by @taktik here → Groove/Shuffle Question - #24 by taktik In that post I quote:
I’m sure people can understand the ‘very hard to explain’ because let’s face it, it is. IDK if taktik fixed the ‘strange things’ since then.
I quickly looked at the groove setting with all 4 sliders set at 100%. Then I went through the first 8 lpb’s. To my hearing (not very scientific I know) lpb’s 1,2,3,4,5 and 7 produce a set groove pattern. But the two lpb’s 6 and 8 produce another different groove pattern.
It says in the manual not to get all into the technical details of the Renoise groove sliders. Maybe that’s sound advice(?) 
One thing I would like to add to the discussion is that “swing”, as known from drum machines, works a bit differently, besides the seemingly same range of values.
I found in my notes the following formulas I once wrote down to convert between the two:
def rns2swing(x):
return (1.0 / 3) * x + 50
def swing2rns(x):
return 3 * x -150
So, for instance, to get a “swing” of 58, you would need to set the sliders in Renoise to 24.
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I don’t own FLStudio myself so I can’t do tests. I find that (from the given 58% example above) it corresponds better with a 25% slider in Renoise. Of course you probably can’t hit it completely sample accurate as for rounding and slightly different calculation reasons. You can’t input 38.143% in Renoise for example. A 100% 1/16 standard shuffle in Bitwig translates to about 74-75% in Renoise.
Not sure about your (python) function above fladd. I assume ‘x’ is a percentage parameter. Sure if I put ‘x’ as 58 into your swing2rns function I get 24. But if I put 100 into the function I get 150, which is tricky to input as a Renoise slider value(?)
Correct. Which is why you cannot achieve a “swing” of 100 in Renoise. At least not with the global groove control.
Oh I see, you mean your formula(s) are for your drum machine the Novation and Roland products
I don’t have a drum machine, but the formulas are for the “swing” I have found on Novation and Roland products.
No problem