I know the topic title is weird, but hear me out If I place a note and give it a 0Uxx command, when I play the song it slides audibly from the starting pitch to the new pitch. If I press return to play the current line, however, it previous without the slide… it’s as if the note is transposed instead.
I want that sort of transposition behavior when the song plays… basically I want to put ONE sample on ONE key, and then play melodies with it using pattern effects to offset the transposition. This way I can fit more samples into one instrument, without mapping a sample out to a range…
I don’t know if it’s possible. It seems like it must be, because of the (buggy?) behavior of pressing return and hearing it instantly transposed as opposed to sliding.
Interesting, by automating ticks-per-line I can do what I want. It’s not quite what I want because I want to do it in a pattern, so now I have to keep place the global effect at the same place as I play the pattern… and lose any tick-based effects at that particular line.
You can achieve instant slides by using the glide command instead, either in a note column to glide a specific note, or in the command column to glide the whole row:
Edit: Hmm, after re-reading your post, I guess you want to be able to do something like C-4 0U30 and have it instantly play D#4 instead? That’s a different issue entirely, I’m afraid.
The reason that it instantly transposes when playing the pattern line with return, is because the entire pattern line is being processed immediately — it’s more useful to hear the end result of all the pattern commands when stepping through the pattern this way, versus actually playing it in real-time.
I’m not sure what we could practically do to make the pitch slide commands work instantly, while also maintaining backwards compatibility and not cluttering things up too much with special command combos or something like that.
I’m not sure what we could practically do to make the pitch slide commands work instantly, while also maintaining backwards compatibility and not cluttering things up too much with special command combos or something like that.
Yeah… that makes sense. I think a new sample command would be necessary. 0Kxy perhaps? K for Key transpose 0K70 could transpose up 7 semitones and 0K71 could transpose down…
I can honestly not hear any audible sliding when using the U/D commands on a note. Am i tonedeaf? Pretty shure i’m not, but i really can’t hear any difference between the patterns in the example i attached.
I figure i must have misunderstood something? Perhaps you meant on the following lines after a note? Well, solution is to put a note on the same line as the pitch command. If you want to transpose beyond 16 notes you may stack it on the same line as many times as you like.
If you can limit yourself to only transpose a max of 1 octave up and down, then you could use macros to transpose your notes. Now a macro by itself wouldn’t work well to make accurate transpositions with pattern commands, but you can configure a custom LFO to make it snap accurately to the halfnotes.
I can honestly not hear any audible sliding (…) in the example i attached.
Your song is using 1 TPL (Ticks Per Line), which results in the pitch slide commands being processed instantly within a single pattern line. If you change back to the default 12 TPL, then the sliding should become somewhat audible.
However, even with the default 12 TPL, your higher-than-usual 224 BPM and 8 LPB (well, higher than the defaults anyway) result in each pattern line playing rather rapidly, which helps to further mask the pitch sliding effect.
Your song is using 1 TPL (Ticks Per Line), which results in the pitch slide commands being processed instantly within a single pattern line. If you change back to the default 12 TPL, then the sliding should become somewhat audible.
However, even with the default 12 TPL, your higher-than-usual 224 BPM and 8 LPB (well, higher than the defaults anyway) result in each pattern line playing rather rapidly, which helps to further mask the pitch sliding effect.
Ah, of course, haha didn’t even know it was set to 1tpl, i thought i had changed it back. Now i definately hear the slide when i lower the tempo. The solution then would be to set the TPL to 1, only a shame that it’s global.
A bit clumsy having to add this every time you want to play a note, but it might work in some cases perhaps:
xU30 ZK01
xx.xx ZK10
It would be nice to have a secondary TPL that could work only in the track where you put it.
I’ve played around a little, and it’s possible to accurately pitch with pattern commands with a pitch modulation operand, transformed in an instrument fx chain with unofficial formula device and a inst macro device there, that isn’t officially possible. lots of c-4’s playing a melody defined in half tone steps with pattern fx commands through an inst.macro device in that track.
Downside would be: it’s “monophonic” pitch alteration. so it gener(e)ally sucks, you can define one pitch offset and all notes played from that instrument have that offset. You could have multiple mod chains for individual samples, but limited by having to use 2 macro dials for each pitch step chain, and there are only 8 available per instrument I think?
The solution with a lfo device remapping the pitch steps instead of the formula device would save one macro dial and use no unofficial stuff, but is tedious to set up compared to the formula device (I haven’t even tried, you would have to calc lots of values, or use some script to set up the lfo), and should basically have the same limitiations regarding polyphony.
So possible, but maybe not what you really want. Unless you have an inst with lots of samples, and only one is played at a time, monophonic, and at different pitches after each other.
Hehe, and it felt really evil tedious to try to program a melody with just numbers of halftones above c-4 in hex, and that’s where I finally gave up on this shit.
The solution with a lfo device remapping the pitch steps instead of the formula device would save one macro dial and use no unofficial stuff, but is tedious to set up compared to the formula device (I haven’t even tried, you would have to calc lots of values, or use some script to set up the lfo), and should basically have the same limitiations regarding polyphony.
Haha, a tuner? You like some fancy detuned guitars? Hendrix was very successful with his life performances, after 2-3 pieces his axe usually was beyond good&evil. Fender whammy bar wasn’t made for abuse…
Hm, in the formula device I’ve just set up (for a selected Pitch mod range of 64.0 semitones, and controlling a +/- 1.0 operand) “0.5+(A/128.0)*255.0” as formula - and it maps the pitch perfectly in semitones above the base note with pattern commands.
To do the same with a lfo, I’d think you would first have to place lots points exactly where the reset would be triggered by pattern commands. Then for each point (each pitch step you’d like to use) you’d have to calculate basically the formula I stated above. Do that manually, and you’re really nuts. Oh, lua…
But I’ve just seen lfo’s in the modulation chains aren’t like the ones in tracks. Envelopes also can’t be triggered with offsets. So you’d have to do basically what I’ve done with the formula device in a track or fx chain. So no saving one macro dial. But it can be saved by putting the lfo/formula device in a track instead of the instrument fx chain.
Not bad, but it seems like you can’t “freeze” the speed of the envelopes. So not usable for long notes. Also it will put offset to every envelope device in the modulation chain, messing with results if some other envelope device is used. But maybe it’s polyphonic! After all it’s about abusing envelope/lfo as a lookup table. This works with the fx lfo device only, as it can be set to zero speed.
This is the point where I wish not for a command to offset pitch by semitones, but a per note “generic” effect (i.e. placed in vol/pan/dly) that will actually pass on a value to a device in the modulation chain. Together with some means of “translating” the values to something meaningful (i.e. a lut/scaler device, or combined into the value receiver as you can’t crosslink parameters in the mod chains like in fx chains), this would open fields to program not only pitch offsets, but offer many other polyphonic/per-note modulation possibilities.
all that stuff is cool, but I would really love to see a new effect along the lines of what I proposed: 0K70 to transpose up 7 semitones and 0K71 to transpose downward.
I definitely like thinking in terms of transposition / intervals and think that for this simple behavior, a simple effect would be awesome… I’m using the trailing 0/1 similar to how the Backwards command works.
Well, if you can live with monophony/only one sample from an instrument playing at a time or multiple at the same pitch offset/or controlling up to 8 fixed groups of pitches individually, you can already have that. With trickery around pitch modulation described above. Also with your system of 16 steps up/down and the trailing one (or preceding), it’d just need a clever formula for the formula device.
I’ve also thought about the first nibble be for octave (or octave offset) and the second for note number (or semitone offset) in the octave. Could present the full range of possible notes then, not just 31.
I’ve also thought about something cool: you could also have one instrument with all the samples on single keys, and make another (empty) instrument control the pitch of the notes with a key tracker. Should work, at least for me more naturally than numbers.
But what’s the real benefit of having a single instrument with very many individual samples vs. having a high number of instruments with one sample each? Is there some limit on the number of instruments?
all that stuff is cool, but I would really love to see a new effect along the lines of what I proposed: 0K70 to transpose up 7 semitones and 0K71 to transpose downward.
I definitely like thinking in terms of transposition / intervals and think that for this simple behavior, a simple effect would be awesome… I’m using the trailing 0/1 similar to how the Backwards command works.
New command wouldn’t hurt, but may i suggest TUxx and TDxx (Transpose Up and Transpose Down), just seems a bit more logic to me and it’s not limited to 16 semitones.
Haha, a tuner? You like some fancy detuned guitars?
Not shure why you think it’s so funny or what detuned guitars has to do with this? The resolution of the macros aren’t more accurate than a tuner would get you anyway. Using a clean continous sound would be very accurate on a good tuner and you would only need to tune 24 notes because the pitch modulation is limited to 1 octave up and down and the proportions would be the same for any note.
In fact i think you could tune the LFO just by 100/25=4. So 12 down would be 0, 11 down=4, 10 down=8 and so on. Not really shure if the pitch modulation curve is logarythmicly accurate on every pitch note though, but i’ll go check later.
Hmm… there is definately something iffy about my math here…
First thing i forgot is that it has a value on 0%, so i would end up at 96 instead of 100%. Next thing i forgot is that the basenote is definately at 50% and that does not add up at all.
Think i’ll have to try the tuner, instead of messing around with math and stuff.
Huh? In renoise 3 I can modulate up to 96 semitones up/down.
“Macro resolution” - renoise seems to work with floating point numbers in range 0.0-1.0 internally - that’s what the formula device is working with. Though a macro dial (and other parameter sliders) shows only a value of 0-100 with one decimal, it can represent much more acurate numbers. You can try manually entering a number (double click the value, enter something with lots of decimals), and copy the settings & read the xml in a text editor. You’ll probably see not the exact number you entered (fp precision is limited), but something very close, much more acurate than displayed in the gui!
The patter effect device parameter input is calculable accurately, too - it’s effect-parameter-xy, with xy being a hex value from 0 to 255. To get a “normalised” number between 0.0-1.0 you just divide by 255.0, and that’s what the pattern command will pass on to eg a fomula device. And that’s why I used the formula device to translate the numbers to “modulation semitone steps”. It’s in tune, belive me, no tuner or reference tone involved, just very simple math!
It’s just a pity that the pattern effect parameter command won’t have a “pefect center value” for +/- parameters. 0x7f will be a tad below 0.5, and 0x80 just a tad above.
But what’s the real benefit of having a single instrument with very many individual samples vs. having a high number of instruments with one sample each? Is there some limit on the number of instruments?
I am experimenting with using one instrument for an entire song.
beats phrases on octave 0
basslines on octave 1
melodies on octave 2
chord progressions on octave 3
fx on octave 4
If I can easily transpose notes, and play more than one note at a time, then I can fit more samples on an instrument. As things are now, if I want a bass sound that I can play over two octaves then I need to spread it over 2 octaves on the sampler.
shrug just trying to use renoise in a way that feels powerful and makes sense to me. I love the idea of having my entire song in a single instrument, with the parts broken up into phrases. It keeps things simple and self-contained, and lets me remix songs easily by using the beats from one song and the bassline from another, for example. I have the different samples routed to fx chains w/ outputs set to different channels on my interface.
Huh? In renoise 3 I can modulate up to 96 semitones up/down.
“Macro resolution” - renoise seems to work with floating point numbers in range 0.0-1.0 internally - that’s what the formula device is working with. Though a macro dial (and other parameter sliders) shows only a value of 0-100 with one decimal, it can represent much more acurate numbers. You can try manually entering a number (double click the value, enter something with lots of decimals), and copy the settings & read the xml in a text editor. You’ll probably see not the exact number you entered (fp precision is limited), but something very close, much more acurate than displayed in the gui!
The patter effect device parameter input is calculable accurately, too - it’s effect-parameter-xy, with xy being a hex value from 0 to 255. To get a “normalised” number between 0.0-1.0 you just divide by 255.0, and that’s what the pattern command will pass on to eg a fomula device. And that’s why I used the formula device to translate the numbers to “modulation semitone steps”. It’s in tune, belive me, no tuner or reference tone involved, just very simple math!
It’s just a pity that the pattern effect parameter command won’t have a “pefect center value” for +/- parameters. 0x7f will be a tad below 0.5, and 0x80 just a tad above.
It’s really just me mixing things up here, it was the pattern command for macro that’s not accurate, not the macro itself.
Also i forgot the pitch range can of course be extended these days, totally forgot about it.
Well, tuning 192 semitones by hand is not going to happen, that’s for shure. I still like my tuners though, no need for complicated math. :lol:
For fun, I’ve played around a little with the original idea of a command that pitches up by the first nibble’s amount in semitones, and down by the same amount if the second nibble is 1 (or generally nonzero). See the file attached demonstrating this thing in action.
Please excuse the simplicity of the melody, it’s rather hard to compose this way, though at the end of tracking it I felt I’m slowly getting hang of the number/pitch thing. The second pattern demonstrates what happens, if you try using it polyphonic, by adding notes one octave higher than in the first track (to make it sound not as queer as other intervals would do). Even when a note is held, and no original notes are playing, subsequent notes will be pitched by any occurance of the macro manipulation. That’s shit of course, and not what the original poster wanted to do…well I just found playing around with this relaxing today.
I’ve better not tried multiple manipulations at once, all commands are in the same pattern. Who knows what would happen if one tried, duh…
If I place a note and give it a 0Uxx command, when I play the song it slides audibly from the starting pitch to the new pitch. If I press return to play the current line, however, it previous without the slide… it’s as if the note is transposed instead.
0K70 could transpose up 7 semitones and 0K71 could transpose down…
