I opened 2.8 the other day by accident and i got confused by the interface and everything felt unfamiliar and complicated. 
Wtf! You are just frustated by yourself. Get a life dude. We know what you are trying to say: renoise 3 doesnt make clever use of space and it makes the workflow harder (that counts for you).
Please stop it. Sure, its rough on some edges and it will sorted out by the devs. Same as we all had to do with the transition from w7 to w8. Now after 6 months i do like w8. I really dont understand your additude!?
Hear, hear, cupcake. There are many basic design flaws like this in Renoise 3, let’s hope these simple things are fixed (I’m sure they’re easy to fix, compared to all the work that’s been done on new features).
For example, in the instrument panel, the icons for ‘open preset’ and ‘open bank’, etc. don’t SAY which is which, so you have to try to remember, or wait for the mouseover to appear. Why? Why delete the words ‘Preset’ ‘Load’ ‘Save’ ‘Rename’, and ‘Bank’ ‘Load’ ‘Save’??? It was perfectly clear before, now we have stupid little icons which mean NOTHING until you have wasted time trying to LEARN what the mouseover says. Why do developers keep making their programs harder to use? Nobody needs stupid little icons, we can all read, thankyou very much.
Another fool trying to SILENCE dissent.
The whole purpose of forums like this is for users to make their feelings known. Maybe then the devs will listen to us. What has Windows 7 and Windows 8 got to do with any of this? A totally different ballgame.
“it will sorted out by the devs” you say. How? By mindreading? Seeing as you don’t want anybody to point out the problems with the interface…
Are you blind? With 2.8 you could easily make the browser take up the WHOLE WINDOW. Now you can’t. And why? Because the devs decided it must be that way, without giving us the option to make it take up the whole window. THAT is what’s irritating. Random stuff like this, changed for no good reason. The whole purpose of a program is to let the user do what they want, as much as possible. It would be a piece of cake to make the browser take up the whole window IF you want it to, which a lot of us often do, since we have thousands of samples, etc.
Where can I find Wenoise 8 !
XG2003, thanks for the sensible reply.
Exactly what i’ve tried to do.
I’m glad someone actually understands my point.
I’m only guessing, but I imagine the reason another 2.x release didn’t happen is because the changes made in this next version required a great deal of entirely new code. That much change in the code base usually means a full version change.
I also imagine that, because of the small development team and limited time they likely have to work on all things Renoise, it would require halting progress with version 3 to go back to 2 and implement the new features, some of which might very well require either retrofitting the new feature or rewriting base code to give 2 the needed backend support.
But like I said, I’m only guessing.
On the other hand, I think it would be a lot easier to include an optional ‘Legacy GUI’ mode that adds the new buttons, tabs, windows, etc. to the existing 2.x interface in a logical way.
Yes, good points here.
The ‘legacy GUI’ idea is a very good one indeed and would certainly make more sense (and probably seem more feasible) to the devs than a ‘secondary’ version like 2.9. Such a feature, if implemented well, would most likely solve the issues i and some others have with version 3 so far.
"Are you blind? With 2.8 you could easily make the browser take up the WHOLE WINDOW. Now you can’t. And why? Because the devs decided it must be that way, without giving us the option to make it take up the whole window. "
- well im not blind at all but i ask myself for what do i need the whole window while using a browser…i mean a minimal width is needed…in most cases the whole height of the windows as we have lots in our folders…but why the hell do i need the whole window for it?
thats what i dont understand right now!
peace out!
edit: hehe, iv got an idea…why not doing a gui design contest for renoise…devs tell us what is the best way to handle that for implementation and we try to build a new interface…(iguess nobody wants that 
Human brain has the ability to read an icon faster than text, of course it depends on the text and how distinctive the icon is, but it is supposed to be more efficient.
You are talking about the icons in the plugin panel right? Those are universal icons, at least for load and save, so it shouldn’t be very hard to assosiate with what the buttons do. If you can’t remember because you rarely use them, then 1 second wait for the text to appear won’t kill ya.
It kinda sounds like you are the only user of Renoise. By all means air your opinions, that’s what these threads are for, but it couldn’t hurt to try to tone down the negativity and rather make your points in a polite way.
If i was a developer i’d rather please the users that shows a little respect for my work, than the handful of whiners that screams the loudest. Just saying.
Developing a kickass software like this is not a simple task, to please everyone is impossible. I believe the devs do whatever they can to please as many as possible (while still staying true to their own vision), we can’t ask for more.
They could hire lots of coders and audio geniouses, but then they’d have to price their product thereafter, we don’t want that do we?
Exactly this, if you try and please everyone you end up with an average product for the average user.
This.
Most of the people like the new style Gui. Why can’t we speak here on the forum that we like the new gui. And if we do, then we are directly called a fool. Where does it go wrong?
I’m absolutely down for old GUI version with 3 funtionality.
Renois 3 GUI seems absolutely wrong, for 2 basic reasons:
- While in old aproach you see everything you need to compose in one window (except this concept in 2.8 which i don’t like about samples windows separate from instruments), than in Renoise 3 you see some shattered parts, wihtout seeing the whole picture, and basic aproach is ‘click to see’, which is very bad i think, and very limiting by standarts of basic tracker visual idea.
- Maybe it’s just me using it for few days, but in most parts i don’t see logical definition between ‘compose’ and ‘design’ parts of GUI, which would be logical with this aproach of ‘click to see’, i think logically it would be better to visually very clearly define those 2 aspects of music creation and workflow.
Heavy using of keyboard shortcuts won’t be a helpfull answer on this arguments, it’s all about visual perspective and how you ‘see’ through composition and mixer.
And screen resolution is not answer here also, coz i have both 1600x900 laptop and 2560x1600 desktop, and equally don’t like new GUI, because it have same problems.
For now it’s just absolutely clumsy, overflowed and frustrating, and more than that - not really necessary at all.
It was very very good idea to use new features (in older versions) as modular approach (for example pattern sequence matrix), because solid basic GUI concept was best for years, and proved to be so.
And it was very bad idea to break shatter everything appart.
To be honest i was shocked with such change, and if there will be no option for old GUI, 2.8 will sadly be my last Renoise 
My suggestions are:
- Move Sample section of sampler back where it was for ages http://i.imgur.com/JQlwoAS.jpg coz it is very bad idea to hide beneath tab something that is so heavily used for composition workflow. It is very very logical to do so, since of course you don’t use all the time Keyzones, Modulation, Waveform and other stuff - please, hide them under other tab, but you choose samples all the time, and to see them all the time - is a must.
- Choosing plugin window http://i.imgur.com/j98sBIs.jpg same thing again, i won’t even say more here, it’s very obvious - plugins are instruments, and they must be presented all the time on the screen with instruments and sample windows, additional functionality - can be hidden in tabs, but not the most important.
- To save space, logic and not confuse people who used renoise for years i would strongly suggest to move Sampler, Plugin, MIDI tabs down, and Edit, Mix, analyser buttons higher.
This would save precious space of single line, and will bring lot more sense i think.
Like that: http://i.imgur.com/Bo81cD6.jpg
P.S.
It’s easy, if you have a monitor with small height and huge folder full of samples, it’s visually easier to seek and manage samples with sample window that use all availible height, now it’s much less than before, which ain’t very good idea either, but i guess a lot of people can leave with it.
What about me, i’d like button to make browser bigger in height, as it was in 2.8
Sure, but even though I’m not really a frequent poster to the forum, it ticks me off because I know where these people are coming from. I mean, heck I remember the days of FTII and Modplug and all of that because that’s what I started with. I have no issues with using trackers.
The fact is, I like a lot of different ways to compose music because they force my brain in a different direction. The fact is, I’m sick of using five DAWs and a pile of hardware. I remember when I first looked at things like Max, etc and was amazed at how you could build your own things in real time.
Personally, VSTs are okay but after many years using them they don’t do it for me. I actually LIKE the new sampling features and the extra ways of working with external hardware. I’m perfectly content with this release. I’m perfectly content with using trackers to make music.
So, when someone takes an elitist jab at someone who has invested a lot of money on his own for multiple DAWs/hardware/interface and still uses renoise anyway for it’s features, doesn’t hesitate to do free PR to friends of mine and even offer instruction on how to use it, etc it’s an insult I take personally.
I understand there is a lot of baggage, especially with Arguru not being around anymore to keep this program as close to the noisetrekker/classic tracker platform as possible to the point where the noisetrekker project has been revived by others. The funny thing about that is, at that time trackers themselves were diving into the realms of virtual synthesis on internal processing engines with sampling for drums. The chiptune half-purists would rather use single cycles and envelopes with 8 bit sample rates to get songs down to the kilobytes. The amiga purists are still happy making 4 channel jungle tracks.
That’s all fine I guess, I have my own nostalgia as well but I also am attracted to the idea of pushing the envelope. I suggested that idea because it doesn’t exist anywhere else. How do I know?
I’ve used pro tools, digital performer, ableton live, fl studio, cubase, and sonar. I hang out with lots of musicians, who all have project studios. I’m well aware of what’s out there.
I still use renoise, because of what it can do with things like drum patterns and sampling. None of those other DAWS can do those things without many hours of work. Actually my only gripe about Renoise is playing into it with a keyboard live, since I turn MIDI notes off because it takes less time to tap them in after recording than to delete all the double note offs and imperfections that gets stuck in the buffer/sequence. So i have to rewire the darned thing into ableton and try to build a track with both because some elitist thinks I should do that or become like him and be a “guru” and write an 8 channel track with nothing but canned c64, fairlight, and proteus samples…
There is no space anymore in the 2.8.1 GUI to add something new in it.
Let’s say that spaces in the old interface were completely used so that you could keep sight on everything at the same time. Some people would say that the old interface was so optimised that visually, too many informations could make it unclear, especially for newcomers. The problem : in such a dense interface, you can’t add anything new and keep sight on everything like before. The devteam had to take “logical” decisions : if they want to introduce a “sampler” in Renoise, with dedicated FX chains, and dedicated Modulations chains, they need new spaces for it. So, the old bottom Instruments Settings tab had to be changed. This tab was allready completely messy, with too many informations, and lateral panels in it. Where would you propose to add the new FX chains in this old but good Instruments settings tab ? Where could you add all the modulations sets in it ? Frankly : new features require new spaces.
Renoise 3.0 itself certainly isn’t perfect and needs improvements. For example tabs would be better than stacked & collapsible panels, in the Sampler zone.
There are indeed lots of small things that could be optimized. For example, the phrase editor needs advanced editing tools and/or a better visual integration in the pattern editor workflow. The VSTi/VST/Plugins browser could allow more flexibility with the ability to Drag & Drop items in groups, (what can’t be done for now… too bad for me I’ve got 1000 VSTis/VST on my desktop computer and have to reorganize everything “manually”).
But, the new interface looks more “logical” than the old one. In the 2.8.1 interface you had to use 3 separate tabs (instruments settings, sample editor, keyzones) to deal with xrni instruments. And newcomers found this separated zones visually unclear, messy. Believe me : some people still don’t exactly understand the difference between renoise .xrni instruments and samples, because of it. I’m sure that the new Sampler tab, will probable make things more clear.
Moving the disk browser on the right side was necessary. As well as moving the VSTi selection box on the top left to let us browse big lists of virtual instruments more naturally. Why. Because browsing huge lists of samples, huge “Content libraries”, browsing huge VSTi libraries require new vertical spaces ! How could you do it with the old tiny horizontal browsers ? It makes no sense AT ALL. The “more” button on the old disk browser hides everything else in the screen so you loose sight on all the workflow. Frankly you can’t use the new right side disk browser and say “Duh, I prefer the old 2.8.1 one because there the new one opens big unused spaces”, that clearly what you’ll have to fill : fill spaces with Libraries of Content.
Try to realise mockups. It’s a good exercise. Try for example, to draw your ideal interface. By doing it, you’ll realise that everything isn’t so easy.
Only thing that really bugs me with the new gui is that you can’t see spectrum analyzer and track dsps on sample editor. I loved how in previous versions you were able to configure the parts of the gui however you wanted.
Other than that the new gui is all great, although there are still some bits that could use some polishing.
Yes 3.0 GUI is a pretty big step backward for single monitor setups (big or small resolution). 2.8 was much more flexible in terms of which information you could see at once, while 3.0 forces you to constalntly switch between screen configurations or having a sampler in a separate VST-like window (which is even worse solution on single monitor).
But I think 3.0 GUI only needs a few tweaks to make it even better than 2.8:
- sampler/plugin tab should not hide upper and bottom panels
This would again make it possible to use it together with track DSP and spectrum analyzer. It should be a bit optimized to make better use of vertical space though, but just making it tabbed (like proposed in this topic), would make a ton of difference. And maybe you could also make the keyboard hideable or at least a bit smaller vertically.
- make sampler’s left panel independent (like it was before, when it was located on the bottom panel)
This way you could load/replace samples, tweak them and change VST presets (!!!) directly from pattern view, without having to switch into full sampler or opening VST GUI.
I also agree with cupcake’s post about disk browser. Old one was better designed and more logically placed for the workflow when loading samples. New one has controls all over the place. But I don’t think vertical browser is a bad idea! I think it can offer even more flexibility than the old one, which was redundant with the spectrum/track scopes.
My suggestions to improve it:
- place it on the left side of the screen (together with instrument list)
- reposition preset folder buttons (1,2,3,4) closer to other buttons (higher, or maybe even horizontally?)
This would place instrument list and browser right next to the sample list (on the left side, which is a logical position I think), which would make it even faster to load samples than in 2.8 and even make it possible to do this without hiding upper analyzers.
What do you think?
Here are a few quick mockups, what I’m missing in 3.0, based on my previous post (1280x800 resolution). All have disk browser on the left side with repositioned 1234 buttons closer to other buttons.
I have repositioned sampler left panel to the right side, because it didn’t look good together with disk browser on the left.
Sampler with spectrum & DSP:
Pattern editor with sample list panel on the right:
@Tha_man:I can understand the logic for the first drawing. The second mockup leaves a lot less room for the advanced edit, how would your mockup look with that expanded in the smallest sized Renoise window?
First of all big thanks for making the effort of doing mockups. 
I like the first one. Because the first one features an horizontal set of tabs with keyzones, waveforms, modulations and effects. It seems that the stackable floating panels aren’t our cup of tea and I agree with you on this point. It’s also interesting indeed to keep sight of the spectrum especially while youre editing a sample or tweaking the associated track fx. Working on a track DSP and applying FX on the edited sample seems to be more easy to do, with this logic.
However the second mockup will not push people to go into the “hypercharge instrument building system”. I suppose that you don’t need those new features as much as using samples directly in a pattern structure.
@vW: Sampler panel should be hideable, just like disk browser and other side/top/bottom panels (I forgot to draw the icon on the top). This way it would be up to the user if he wants to see it in patern view. I have tried it at 1280x800 and it would be completely usable even with advanced pattern edit expanded (it hides the bass track). Since 1280x800 is around the smallest resolution you can get in todays notebooks, it would be fine on most machines. On those with bigger resolution even more so.