Old Boomer has something to say

General Discussion
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I just want to share some of my thoughts and my story about Renoise and trackers in general. Been using them for so long and it’s so in the blood.

My journey with trackers started in '90/91 at the age of 14. First was, if I remember right, Soundtracker on Atari ST. I did Techno and Trance (Hard Trance) with that setup. Then I moved to Amiga 500 a couple of years later and it had the Protracker. I tried to use Octamed too, but it never worked properly for me for some unknown reason.

In 1996 I moved to the PC world and my first software was a Scream Tracker. It was so amazing to have 16(?) tracks on it. I remember it was like there were no limits anymore, and now I can do anything I want.
Then I found Fasttracker 2 and oh boy, that was another big leap forward in music making. The first time can used a MIDI keyboard with a tracker and a few years later I got some hardware synths in my arsenal to send MIDI to them. Fasttracker didn’t have VST’s, so all effect processing was done externally, on synths or external effect units.
Oh well, at one time I did have 11 hardware synths in my studio. It went a little bit overkill. (Nowadays all external gear I have, is just a 3-octave MIDI keyboard and an audio interface).

Then in the year 2002, I found this ultimate tracker called Renoise and I’ve been very happy with it since then. Using it with various VST synths and effects. I must say that Kontakt has changed a lot my music in general. It has its quirks, but it has the best libraries for orchestral compositions and guitars and basses for every kind of music.
I’ve never had to use any other DAWS than tracker for my music making. Though have tried Fruity Loops, Reason, and Cubase, but I just hate those pianorolls…

I like the way in trackers, you can input notes and other stuff just with a keyboard and you can use it without a mouse if you want. With pianorolls is all about clicking with the mouse those tiny little boxes. When watching on Youtube when someone is using a pianoroll, I always think how slow and awkward that look. Those boxes are never in the right place and then they move them around like they don’t know what they’re looking for… Seems so weird to me. I like to play everything live first with a keyboard (most times just a computer’s own keyboard) before putting notes to a Renoise sequencer. Then tweaks can be done there just with a keyboard.

And this whole pianoroll thing is really bugging me. In here forum just all the time someone is whining “Why doesn’t Renoise have a pianoroll, blah, blah…”
IMHO, when every single DAW out there has a pianoroll, then why not just use one of those instead? I just don’t get it… Seriously people…
Renoise is a tracker. Period.

Then there was this, I don’t know how it is in other countries, but here in Finland has been a mentality that music that has been done on a tracker, is not a “real” deal. Maybe it’s from the Amiga era or something, I often hear people saying that trackers are just for a chiptune and other “low-quality” stuff. Not for a “real” music.
There are so many times when I’ve been defending Renoise and telling them that you can do everything in Renoise than every other DAW.
But no, people are always belittling and dissing trackers here.
Like: " Are you STILL using Renoise?"
My answer is: “Yes of course I use. What else tho? I can do with it everything I want.”
I don’t know a single thing that I can achieve on any other DAW that Renoise can’t do.

In 1995 one of my tracks was played on the radio and my music was on a couple of compilations here in Finland. My artist name was “Moonraver” then (I didn’t know then that there was another one with the same name in Germany).
In the early 00’s I got one of my remixes on a label, my project then was called “Finsane”. There was another bloke involved in it too.
2017- 2021 I had my own production company and I made many works for different clients, including a couple of soundtracks (all the music and sound effects) for a theatre and some video work (commercials, short films, etc). I did all the audio work with Renoise.
Nowadays I make music and videos just for a hobby.

Btw, really hope to get those audio tracks to Renoise someday.
I mean where you can see the waveform next to a track. That would be so awesome! It would make things so much easier.

Well, I really don’t know the meaning of this post, but just wanted to share some of the old boomer’s thoughts from all these decades using trackers. Maybe I’m having some kind of nostalgic trip to memory lane going on… Time flies.

I love this Renoise community. I haven’t posted much here, but been reading and learning so lot from here in these years.
Thanks to all and keep making music with Renoise!

-Janne-

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TLDR: :sweat_smile:

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If that’s equally true for Ableton, Fruityloops or whatever then sure. Not I agree with that reasoning, but at least it is consistent. That would just be the old computer vs playing acoustic instruments argument. If it’s specifically tracker music that “isn’t real” then those people have no idea what they are talking about.

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:joy: :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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Exactly :+1:

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Thanks for the insight Janne, it was cool reading about some of your experience and history with trackers. I also dislike piano rolls with my soul (and that’s one of the reasons I love Renoise and trackers in general). My bet is that a lot of the younger generation is getting into Renoise nowadays (which is awesome) and different from the 90s kids they’re much more familiar with piano rolls and DAWs, so it’s understandable that they might suggest something like this from time to time. We gotta be patient with them, Renoise is marketed as a fully-fledged DAW so it’s not unreasonable to expect such requests from people that are just now joining the tracker party.

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Sounds like a KI-generated story bro! :laughing: :joy: :crazy_face:
But the Anti-Pianoroll statements from the squad must be given… In Heise Forum thats called Redwave or Greenwave. Thats happens always when some group wants to control the forum for her narrative. Really Big cinema mate, i’m impressed!

:partying_face:

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As stated multiple times before, piano roll will not be happening.They will not be implementing it. So you have two choices,use piano roll tool or switch software.

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More Gaslighting? Pianoroll is just an Example on which you are process now. It’s goes on the general thing.
But nice to see how someone are always again running the same trap.

happy tracking :slight_smile:

//Edit

And btw. Its not the question if you like or maybe dislike a Pianoroll. The Question is, if you can work easily, efficient and intuitive with a alternate input and visualisation shema. And you can it with both, Trackerview AND Pianoroll!!! There is no Exclusiv OR in this equation!

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Right on my man :fist:

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Absolutely agree,there’s just one thing though,piano roll will not be implemented.

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like i sayed… limited minds! :slight_smile:

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Instead of accusing people with ‘limited minds’ why don’t you try to adapt?There’s no point in asking for piano roll anymore because its not going to happen.

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What is your problem, dude?
Where we can listen your songs? I’m really curious to hear them.

Those who are always whining and demanding this and that for a gear and/or software, really can’t make anything finished. Music-making and visual work is an art form. And it’s all about creativity. Making things happen.

Only what matters, is the end result and that you are enjoying what you do. You do things with those tools you have. And if you can’t, probably it’s not the tool’s fault.

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Nice story, would also fit in this thread that contains my story. You’ve started creating music the same year as me, you’re just a little older than me. There are quite some similarities, but what stands out is that you were a professional once. So you know that Renoise is so to say a “professional tracker”. I agree, most people are ignorant when it comes to proper DAWs. I don’t know why trackers aren’t more popular, in fact they’re best for electronic music in general. You know the reason, I know the reason, everybody who ever has used a tracker knows the reason. But people don’t know about it, because in the past there wasn’t a tracker that could deliver professional sound, so common DAWs increased their dominance and today people don’t even notice the existence of trackers. So it’s for those who know. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Wise words, man.
When we started tracking, there was only Cubase maybe? And some notation programs. All those were MIDI only. So you needed a synth/hw sampler to make music with them. Trackers were the only possible way to do a sample-based music back then just with a computer. A lot has changed since those days.

I know there’s a lot of commercial music done in the 90s with trackers.
And I didn’t have a clue of those back then. If only I had known then…

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Yes, and as far as I know musicians like “The Prodigy” were using trackers, too, I just can’t remember which ones. But at that time I didn’t know about it either.

Yes, but Atari ST only. In 1992 it was released on PC, too. And yes, as far as I remember you also needed hardware to use Cubase. That would have been a very expensive hobby for a kid… And one would have to deal with a piano roll, So personally I preferred Amiga. At least the graphics, programs and games were superior on Amiga and there was SoundTracker, In 1994 I had the opportunity to use Cubase on Atari ST for a while, but I really didn’t like it despite the “professional” sound quality. :slightly_smiling_face:

I’ve forgot to ask: There was a "SoundTracker "on Atari ST? The same SoundTracker as on Amiga? So to say the cracked and further developed version of this SoundTracker, that became the common SoundTracker on Amiga? Followed by NoiseTracker and ProTracker?

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Yes, trackers were the only way to make music as a kid at that time. Remembering all this brings so great memories.

Oh, I remembered wrong, Atari did have Noisetracker and Protracker.
Sountracker was for Amiga only.
Two of my friends had Amiga at the time when I had the Atari ST.
Atari had mono output only and the sound quality wasn’t quite as “good” as Amiga had.

We made our own samples with Amiga. One of my friends had a sampler for it. We were sampling everything, from records, synths, and electric guitar even. Sample time was very limited though.

I was so into that early 90s UK hardcore at the time. Well, I still am…
I didn’t realize back then that it was mainly done with trackers.
When listening to those tracks nowadays, it’s immediately obvious to hear that tracker sound from most of them. Bizzy B’s stuff is a good example. Acen did use Cubase.

I remembered from somewhere that the Prodigy used a tracker in The Fat of The Land album too, not just their first album. It’s a pity that there’s not much info on those things anywhere.
Who knows if they use them all the time? At least on some tracks.

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Are you STILL using Pianoroll in Renoise??

Some users still sure that Pianoroll is DAW with VST plugin named Renoise.

And remember! Not Renoise is a tracker but tracker is Renoise! Amen!

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Really? I didn’t know this. Then I guess it was a porting from Amiga?

That’s right, but as you mentioned Atari had a MIDI port, that’s why you got a professional sound while creating music in Cubase if you’ve connected hardware with the Atarti ST. It was the only way to produce professionally with a DAW at that time. Nevertheless I’m a fan of Paula, even though I still prefer SID over Paula. :slightly_smiling_face:
At this point one have to emphasize what big step in creating music Renpise is. A tracker that can run plugins AND is capable of sample stuff. A dream has come true. The only thing that I have to regret is the fact that I didn’t discover Renoise earlier. When I returned to music in 2007 after having a break of a decade, Renoise already existed, but I was using SkaleTracker, which is a FastTracker clone. It took 4 more years until someone recommended Renoise to me. If you ever read this, thanks again, @Amok! :slightly_smiling_face:

I did this as well by using the Techno Sound Turbo. It was quite fun digging for samples and for other data from games.

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