Process Track Dsps With Envelopes

Ideas & suggestions
1

Process Track DSPs with Envelopes in the Sample Editor
I find that the Sample Editor is fills a gap that a lot of audio workstations have. I’ve only found a couple of very expensive and bloated pieces of software that let you edit samples with the efficiency that Renoise does. That being said, I’ve been spending a lot of time on it and have a few things that I’d love to see added.

I love sound design, and as part of my sound design process, I process audio with modulated effects. I know you can do this with the pattern editor, via pattern effect commands or automation envelopes, but you can’t do it with the sample waveform right in front of you and the automation lined up right underneath it (or overlayed).

This image shows what I’m going for a bit, sorry if it’s not the best quality.

Going over the image:
Here I’ve basically tried to use elements that have already been developed in Renoise in the hopes that they can be ported over to other areas for new uses.

This is an image of the sample editor with a new automation window right below the sample itself. Ideally it would be nice to have these line up with the sample exactly, so that the grid matches up. The purpose is to be able to do the same kind of automation you can currently do with the track, but with the selections in the Sample Editor.

Another thing that I find important is that effect tails need to be handled better when you’re processing the sample effects. I don’t know of a way right now to get the effect tails to render without creating a separate sample with some padding at the end, processing the effects there, and then reinserting that sample back into the original. I know there are ways to accomplish this by triggering different samples in the pattern editor, but that can be such a hassle, and you don’t get very much video feedback.

I’m a visual person and would love to be able to see and preview my modifications (audibly) to get them right, process the sample selection, and then quickly throw away the DSPs.

For the love of God, please tell me you see how this can be amazing. :D There are so few apps that can do this at all with an easy to use tempo grid and then the way that Renoise can integrate it all is just incredible. That being said, please give me any feedback on these ideas. There’s some information in the image that isn’t in this text, so let me know if you have trouble reading, or understanding it. Also, please note the Pitch/Speed automation parameter suggestion. It’s at least something to think about. Why not? ;)

Cheers.

2
  • quadrillions :)

I’ve wanted something like this for forever in wavelab; a way to visually draw the automation of different vst parameters over time and render it straight in the waveform.

Sure in Renoise you can set up envelopes in the automation editor and ‘right-mouse’-click ‘render to sample’ your selection in the pattern editor, but it makes a lot of sense to have an option like you’ve drawn up for the sample editor!

It would make renoise a dangerous tool for audio manipulation!

3

Thanks for the reply, I was worried that the forums were kind of in a lull. :)

I’ve seen these ideas in other software, but they’ve been scattered and not very integrated into the compositional/sound design workflow. So none of this is original, but boy is it much needed.

The idea of just zoning in on an audio file, spending hours, and coming out of it with a sonically rich soundfile that is already rendered, on beat, and ready to use is just too exciting. You’d be designing your instruments on both a micro and macro level, with no CPU hogging DSPs in the end! Amazing… When I saw these features scattered throughout several other pieces of software (like Wavelab and SoundForge) I was confused as to why it wasn’t taken further and integrated better into a workstation. It’s such a fun and rewarding way to work for me.

I really hope this gets noticed and considered for a future release of Renoise.

4

Seems like the next good step for the process fx option in the sampler.

Wouldn`t be my highest priorty amoung new features but I certainly see the convenience/ potential and give it a +1

5

@Ledger

Thanks for the support on the idea. I wish I could share the feeling of this not being a high priority, but I’m so enamored with that workflow.

However, I know that there are things that I don’t understand about the focus of Renoise development that are probably more important and more exciting to a larger user base. On that note, is there a list of priorities for development somewhere that I might look at? I’ve been trying to find plans for the upcoming versions on the site, but haven’t had any luck… I’m not even sure when the new feature polls are going up for me to vote on.

Can I just re-emphasize that these features would make me the happiest camper in the known world? :)

Cheers

6

No, nothing is ever published. Every release is a surprise. Alpha testers are sworn to secrecy.

The only way to get a feel for the priorities is to hang out in this forum… Hence why we are a real community. Some of us have been here for years and we still don’t know what’s going on. Haha.

Rest assured, every Renoise team member reads and participates in the forums.

Good times.

7

Thanks Conner_Bw, that’s good to hear. I’ll be lurking then. :)

BTW, thanks for your xrns2midi script, it came in very handy recently.

8

That’s written by Bantai. I only wrote the first prototype, to prove it was possible. Long gone. :slight_smile:

9

I’m just starting out with some Renoise scripting. Would this feature be somewhat possible using the Renoise API? :)

10

Looks nice !

11

Isn’t “render selection” the better way of doing such things. This way you can do “whatever” you want with automation, notes and stuff?

12

Imo the above feature request is about sound mangling relatively ‘large’ samples in the sample editor, something Renoise isn’t the best pick for anyway as everything is loaded in ram and gets slow quickly on my system. The render selection method is definitely adequate to generate large samples, but what if you want to mangle that generated sample again real quickly? You’ll have to change dsp settings, automation lines etc, kind of cumbersome, compared to a simple selection in the sample editor and applying the proposed enveloped fx.

It would be a very welcome speed improvement, workflow improvement, opening up Renoise for sound designers.


In wavelab you can now select a portion of a sample, select your vst(s), then draw a curve in the ‘effect morphing’ tool and apply effects. The Effect Morphing feature lets you crossfade between two processed versions or one processed and one -unprocessed version of a file.

Applying a curve on top of a horizontal waveform works much more intuitively then automating sends for example of different plugins to achieve a similar result in Renoise.

13

the point of this feature, i guess, would be to make the relation that exists between parameter automation and the sound (sample) that is automated visibly clearer than it is now. i know i have often been doing a lot of calculating to determine how the automation curve (or position in track, for that matter) corresponds to a certain position in the sample. this is of course in relation to un-synced samples (as the math becomes a lot easier with a sample synced to, say, 128, while the track is also 128).
the typical thing of how Renoise currently works is that the position on the track is visible in the automation curve, but not in the sample. moreover, the sample has an ‘ruler’ at the bottom with the 00 - FF range displayed (so using the ‘09xx’ command is very easy), but it does not relate to the position on the track/automation curve. this incongruency has become, IMO, exceedingly typical with the introduction of the Autoseek-option, as this begs for the requested implementation, or at least for a visualization of the relation between the trackposition and sampleposition.

i hope you understand what i mean (i’m not a native English speaker), and would like to consider this, as i believe it is a bit illogical how all of this is currently implemented. it seems ‘unfinished’.

14

Yes, this is nice ^_^

  • 1
15

Cool Idea! +1!

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Um… Yes It Does!

Right Click on the top/bottom ruler and make sure it is set to Beats. This then shows you how many beats through the sample you are at any point.

Two enhancements that could be made to in (IMHO anyway.)

When changing note being played with the box below the sample the ruler should also change to show how many Beats if the sample was played on this note.

The sub-divisions should match the Beats Per Line value, and thus show how many lines, not always be set at 4.

EDIT: Made a thread for this on its own as a suggested. Also realised you can use top and bottom ruler for whichever type of marking you desire whereas I initially said do this with Top Ruler.

17

@kazakore: i sometimes forget to add a disclaimer at the bottom of my messages saying ‘i am no expert and might be overlooking features in giving this commentary’. anyway, thanks a lot for that tip, i never noticed that, and it will make my life a lot easier!

18

Sorry if it came across rude. Happy to be of help though :slight_smile:

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No man, don’t worry about it, did not come across rude at all. this sort of thing is just the result of Renoise having a ton of features, and most people not knowing about every last one of them, combined with a perfectionist community determined to help a fantastic product become even better.

20

@kazakore: i looked at your suggestion and you are absolutely right. turns out my top ruler was always set to ‘beats’, i just never really noticed that top ruler :)

however, i still think this feature needs a slight improvement, just to make the relation between sample-position and pattern-position more obvious.
look at the automation-window when you have an automation curve set and you press ‘play’ for your pattern. you see a line moving along the automation curve (this goes for all the automation curves btw). this same bar is displayed in the sample editor when a sample is played in the pattern, BUT, on pausing the pattern, and on moving down line-by-line manually, the line disappears. this does not happen in the automation curve, which makes determening a pattern-position in this curve a lot easier. i’d like to request the same thing for the sample editor.

if this is needed in a seperate thread or whatever, please tell me so and i’ll do happily do it.