I posted a screen shot of Buzz’ piano roll. Its actually very easy to use and doesn’t feel much different than the standard horizontal that we’re used to. You can control the step detail, and using keyboard up and down buttons while holding a note will record the note how you want. There’s no fuss of trying to mix and match vertical with horizontal for timing. I’d recommend anyone here with an open mind to download Buzz, open up a Qsamo synth pattern and click on the piano roll (and click on the Help button on the bar to learn how to use the piano roll). It’s completely tracker friendly, allowing the keyboard to control many things instead of the mouse alone that we’re used to for other piano rolls. It’s about as tracker-like as a piano roll can get. It shows an example that trackers can also implement piano rolls and use the best of both worlds without sacrificing anything uniquely “tracker.”
Let’s face it, if piano rolls were vertical from the start, there’s be no question about if it were strange to use. With that logic, the pattern arrangers in trackers should be counter intuitive too because other programs made us all learn to arrange our patterns left to right. It’s the same argument horizontal DAW people have against trackers in general. “It’s too confusing, too many numbers, vertical, scary.” It’s all only a matter of past experience. If I tried to learn to write Arabic tomorrow, I’d be annoyed to learn to go “backwards,” and the same can be applied to trying to do anything else in a different direction. Driving on the other side of the road in other countries, etc, etc. Comfort zones can be adjusted and new things learnt, etc, etc. />/>/>/>/>
Piano roll has been confirmed by taktik once, but the post was later deleted with reprimands from the forum moderator. It is the only thing that I know for certain is gonna be part of Renoise 3.0.
This is also the reason for all the secrecy regarding Renoise 3.0. They want you to try it and judge for yourself instead of everyone flaming the forums during the development.
Yeah.
EDIT: Also. The release is being planned for summer 2014 if I remember correctly. They want to make the piano roll perfect before they release it.
Yes , I noticed that It was taken from buzz .
But seriously hope that it will not be in ren.3.
NOw there will always be a debate about what feels more natural , horiz. or vertical …Sound travels in 3d …so to represent sound into 2d …we need coordinates amplitude and time …( we don’t need coordinate z .for space )
IN almost all daws and audio editors …amplitude is the y-axis …when time is the x-axis …so it travels from left to right …
That’s also the reason why all daws draw their pianoroll in a horizontal way , to keep consistency between the two ., the piano roll and the audiowaveforms
If I remember correctly one of the first audio editors ( an in house lucasarts thingie from teh 80’s ) displayed audio vertical , but for some reason they flipped it 90 degrees and that became standard .
You read from left to right no ?
I feel perfectly comfortable with top …bottom tracker style …wouldn’t want it other wise …I don’t need a f…n piano roll … and certainly not a vertical one …
If they do include a pianoroll …make it circular …so we can sequence 360 degrees …
Now for the first time I must admit that I’m seriously lost in the greyzone between serious statements and serious statements that were meant to be jokes. Can’t tell the difference in this case, since joule generally seems to be more serious kind of guy. So… what is it - really: joke or fact? I monitor these forums quite often and I haven’t seen any such oneshot confirmation from taktik. It’s easier to spot “The wolf is coming! Holy shit check the backstage!” - that kind of statements, but the first 3-4 sentences in this quote could be true. It’s just that the “Yeah” and the edit comment seem to contradict any previous possibility of seriousity - the devs wouldn’t leak any actual plans for a summer 2014 release that easily.
However. If this should turn out to be an actual feature of Renoise 3.0 (i.e. joule wasn’t joking), then indeed it will be a new dawn for Renoise in the much larger music production community. Imagine all the guys who currently equate trackers with its alphanumeric workflow and prefer the visual pianoroll way of editing… and imagine them downloading and checking out Renoise 3.0 final… concluding that it has lots of the highlighted cool features in e.g. Live, Bitwig, etc - and then some unique stuff like the ultralevel control of sample manipulation, render VSTi to sample, etc… well, it could very well mean more $$$ to the Renoise project and the attraction of more serious users.
So, joule, I hope you’re not joking. Pianoroll in Renoise 3.0 would indeed explain the previous taktik comment (you know, in response to the nervous people, that comment seemed to be a nice way of suggesting that some users wouldn’t appreciate it). It would also explain the need to re-structure some core aspects of the software. And, by implication, if a pianoroll has been implemented, then most likely the pattern length restrictions are (optionally) gone in that mode, which implies that also linear arranger stuff could have been implemented. If this will turn out to be true, then I think Renoise will drop as a bomb in the DAW world, getting at least 10 times more attention in music magazines and from music producers all over the world.
Contrary to some tracker-ists here, I think such a move from the developers would reflect an act of genius. Imagine the possibilities that 3.x versions would make possible if they dropped the pattern boundaries and introducing a linear workflow - we’re talking lots of potential here, and not only features such as “pattern zoom” and such.
I really hope for this move to become a reality rather than a wish or speculation, it would simply be AWESOME!!!
I heard they are going to add a mixer to Renoise 1.8. If they do in fact add a mixer I wouldn’t use it, because it’s so far outside of the tracker paradigm that frankly I see it as a gimmick I would never use. They are better off adding actual useful features missing from Renoise 1.5 like support for Buzz Machines and Impulse Tracker modules.
If the devs listened to the “Renoise-should-be-a-modern-80’s-tracker-with-proper-.mod import-, because-I’ve discovered-I was-actually-a-better-composer-20-years-ago–and-desperately-need-to-polish-on- my -.mods- I- made- when- I -was- like- 13”-kind of crowd, then Renoise wouldn’t have evolved at all.
So, again, hopefully the devs will blow up the tracker-only paradigm once and for all. Yes, some users won’t hesitate to raise their concerns, objections and anger - but they would probably all change their minds within a couple of years and then - while using a highly successful and cool Renoise 5.0 - just look back and realise how narrow-minded and pattern-constrained they were back in 2013. />
I’d rather see Renoise mature as a DAW than as a tracker. Extending features into areas like linear arrangers, pianorolls and audiotracks would indeed reflect such evolution.
According to a roadmap that was leaked a long time ago, the long term plan is to actually replace the pattern view with a piano roll. Pattern editing only works for the seriously devoted and its market is very limited.
Im totaly convinced that renoise 3 is going to be an huge step forward… I think the devs are smarts peoples Who know what thez do… Im pretty confident… Cheers.
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