Sub-Track Arrowkey Selection

Ideas & suggestions
1

I can’t remember if I or someone else requested this in the past, and a few searches didn’t turn anything up, but here it is:

I want to be able to use arrow-keys to select ANY portion of a track (or multiple tracks) - that means any cell, any individual column, rather than just the entire width of the track (as when pressing shift+arrowkeys). This behaviour is universal amongst pretty much all other trackers and its absence from Renoise really disrupts my workflow. Reaching for the mouse is SLOW when you’ve spent a lifetime getting used to being a lightning-fast keyboard operator, and even then you can’t just select, say, the instrument parameter column. Reaching for the mouse, opening the advanced editor, opening the Content Mask section arrow (clicking the section title doesn’t expand it, sadly) and THEN choosing the mask options before finally doing a copy action is just cruel and unusual timewasting!

Not suggesting extant behaviour should be altered; I’m only suggesting that a secondary behaviour is made available for us to map shortcuts to. Personally, I’d map this new behaviour to shift+arrows, while I’d map the current behaviour to shift+ctrl+arrows, for when I did want a full-width selection (saving myself from tapping right-click loads of times for a many-sub-tracked pattern or one with extra FX columns). If you want an example of how this would work, try alt+arrows in www.milkytracker.org; that will select just the cell you’re on (whether it’s note, instrument, volume or effect) and then add single cells as you move the arrowkeys.

This would speed up my workflow by about 20%, no exaggeration. Please add your thoughts (or, even better, tell me that this functionality exists and that I’ve stupidly not noticed it all these years!).

2

bump

I realise it’s obnoxious to bump a post about an issue that obviously didn’t inspire any sympathy or inflame any passions, but I’m really desperate for this to be at least discussed or considered, let alone solved. I still foster some hope that another soul out there has at some point tried to quickly select a column of instrument values with mouse or keyboard, only to get a full-track selection and an extra dose of disheartening manual labour.

Moderators: this tweak clearly isn’t going to make it into the 2.5 final release, so maybe this thread would be better off in the general suggestions thread? Maybe I should have put it there in the first place :)

3

Not necessarily a feature I would use myself, (though I am sure I would give it a go)

but I have to say I sympathy for these small pattern workflow feature requests that you know can have a big impact on the way you work…

It also makes sense so a +1 from me.

:)

4

Argh, this is driving me absolutely MENTAL now; I don’t even care about the bump.

Yet again, I’ve tried to do what should be a completely straightforward thing: dragging the mouse across the exact block of commands I want to delete (pan col + delay col + effect col) with my right hand so I can do a lightning fast ctrl+x with my left to zap it all.

But NO, I need to go to the Advanced Edit , hunt for Content Mask and expand it , untick Note, Instrument and Volume <click, click and click>, cut the commands I want to cut then finally close Advanced Edit again so I can make the most of the viewport .

Then it’s back to composing, note-entering, MIDI recording, and because I love being able to dance around the keyboard nice and efficiently in Renoise - other DAWs are useless for this - I start to do some Shift+Arrows and cut/copy/paste actions. But wait! The content mask is still completely perverted from my earlier LucasArts-style point and click adventure! So it’s another to get the AE, then , and to unmask my Note, Instrument and Volume columns, another final to close AE and only then can I get back to work…until the next time, of course, when it starts all over again. Probably about 30 seconds later.

Eleven unnecessary clicks and eleven more little pieces of my heart shrivel up and die :( Does this not frustrate anyone else? I can’t possibly be alone! I simply feel it’s more intuitive that using keys or mouse to select a specific region of stuff should select that very region of stuff, like it does in most other trackers, all other DAWs, even all word-processors.

AAAaaaaAAAaaaaAAAAAAAaarrgghghjwegiuwhef;iwuerioaus;ghaslgdslb,mxvncb.

5

+1, I agree, it’s been bothering me a bit for a while now. Not a big deal, but would smoothen up the work flow.

6

Glad I’m not completely alone - raises my spirits while I lie in a foetal position crying tears of blood onto my piss-stained carpet!

7

Yes I agree I would love if it was possible, it would speed up the important sellingpoint of Renoise, the workflow a lot.

I would also like to have a shortcut to add to or subtract to any value I have selected.

I would just need to select, then shift+arrow up or shift+mousewheel up/down to add or subtract to any value.

8

splajn - good idea, worth making a unique feature request for. I’d use it.

But this selection business is REALLY annoying me now; REALLY slowing me down.

How did Renoise end up with this weird-ass patterndata selection in the first place? What’s the rationale for shift+up/shift+down selecting absolutely EVERY bit of data in the track and then using the fiddly masking options as a retroactive workaround? Trackers were always supposed to be about precision, not blunt-instruments - I feel like I’m doing open heart surgery with a spoon. I’m clutching at straws here, but maybe knowing the rationale would help me understand why things are the way they are, and maybe it would allow me to refine my request better…

aaaAAAararargghhh

9

I concur, the select behaviour feels weird to me too.

+1

10

Your definitely have a point here.
Lets cut up the selection behavior!

11

Yes! Just a toggle between current behaviour and per-cell behaviour (whereby a cell is that which, in Renoise 2.5, is highlighted by arrowkey movement or mouse double-clicking - highlighted individually, like we want, but disregarded by the selection process!).

12

+1

Current selection methods, both mouse and keyboard, are unnecessarily complex and quite slow.

13

at first i thought the “new” ctrl + b/e would do the trick for precise selections, but its the same as mouse- selection.

so yes, plus 1.

EDIT: just to clarify, it would be nice to get ctrl + b/e for pan/vol/dly column too.

14

Instead of selecting a whole line at once automatically (inclusive note, instrument, Pan, Vol, Dly) it is desirable to separate the columns out, so you need to draw a mouse rectangle to include the columns in the selection. Right?
Was just thinking about this…So lets picture the idea a bit about separating column (and row :)?) selection:

unselected:

C-5 00 … … 20 – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000

Currently using [shift] + [down] goes into this 3-row selection selection:

[b]

C-5 00 … … 20 – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
[/b]

Or by mouse (note that the FX columns are already excluded):


C-5 00 … … 20 – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000

Now if this automatic glued-together selection method is cut loose, you will have to draw a rectangle with the mouse to include the columns and the rows in the selection:

[b]

C-5 00 … … 20 – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
[/b]

But now, lets say, you want to get the note column and the FX1 column in the selection…
It would be cool to pick multiple columns with the mouse using a [ctrl or Alt] key:


C-5 00 … … 20 – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
(mind that ctrl is already the force-copy key (which is very default/intuitive like in MS apps), also ALT is often used for “column-select” => see MS Word, MS VisualStudio, etc. So I prefer ALT…)

Even multiple different rows can be selected:

C-5 00 … … 20 – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000
___ __ … … … – 0000 0000

When pasting, only the matching data columns and rows as in the selection are overwritten, making the mask obsolete.

When you want to use the keyboard, you can replace the Mouse start with the cursor point and hold SHIFT + arrowkeys to select multiple rows and subsequent columns (like the rectangle method from the mouse).

15

Knetter, that’s a tangent (or rather a skip ahead from my initial request), but still very relevant: adopting this behaviour for keyboard and mouse selection would ultimately be cool, as it mimics the behaviour of most OS windowing systems. And if the Alt modifier is available for this kind of behaviour, then yes - let’s demand it!

16

The more I think about it, the more I agree that Knetter’s ideas should definitely be part of this feature when it arrives. Also, bump! (because each day that passes, I feel even more strongly about this - meaning that every bump is not just a bothersome reiteration of the same request but a means of showing how the request evolves into new, ever more heartfelt requests.)

And then we’ll all be able to actually use Renoise as the high-res, nuts’n’bolts, fine-tuning powerhouse that we all keep telling our friends it is, and that we always dreamt of :)

17

I’m chewing my own arms off in sheer despair over this. I STILL can’t just drag the mouse down a column of instrument numbers or delay values and SELECT THEM.

That’s all I want.

I don’t want to use the stupid fiddly little tick-boxes in Advanced Edit because I can SEE the goddamn values I want to select; it’s not like they’re merged with unwanted values, or anything.

They’re RIGHT THERE.

The cursor can identify these individual cells easily enough - hell, the cursor can even navigate individual characters within the instrument/delay/pan/etc/ columns BUT I CAN’T SELECT THEM. I have to waste my time faffing around with Advanced Edit bullshit that’s great help for genuinely complex manoeuvres, but completely obstructive for the simple act of SELECTING STUFF!

Devs, PLEASE help me out here. PLEASE at least respond and tell me it’s impossible, or I’m being frivolous, or I’m a fucking whiner, or it’s something that could be considered, or SOMETHING!

I spend all my time loving Renoise and occasionally I need it to love me back :( (also, the forum needs a ‘crying’ emoticon; I had to make do with the sadface)

Oh, mods - maybe this could be moved to the 2.6 suggestions subforum please?

18

I think I recall even taktik mentioning what you want as desirable, and generally speaking it’s been requested a lot.

Patience! :)

19

That helps a lot, even just knowing that there’s awareness of my plight :)

Thanks Johann!

20
  • millions! I’ve missed having this many many times.