I’m gonna be nasty and bump this thread .
Would really like to know if the envelopes will get an update , they show their weakness when doing fast attack/decays .
I feel like bumping this one , been unable to recreate patches because of the envelope limitation ( see above ) .
Inserting a scale modifier ( to expand env. attack range )also messes with kbd tracking module etc.
New accurate envelopes please , especcially the attack stage .
Rant over
fastest exponential decay with envelope fader operator , from max freq. of the ring mod ( 7900 hertz ) ( using dc sample as an impulse ) , is impossible .
And that’s not because the changes are too fast , it’s simply because of renoise’s limitations .
edit : The click you hear is not the ultrafast decay , it’s the starting phase of the ring mod. sine wave ( +1 ) … ( cosine )
I think it is not fault of the modulation envelopes themselves.
I normally work with the fader devices for the tighter stuff, chaining some of them to achieve the wanted envelope.
Rendering a dc sample through a volume envelope built from faders with 7ms attack and 10ms decay yielded a nice little ramp with slight bends, not totally perfect in shape but topping 1.0 in the expected times. With a linear envelope, the curve was a bit different but still in check considering the tight timing.
But testing this with filters with very high reso, the top freqs weren’t reached like you described. So I believe the filter (and rm also) freqs are smoothed/lagged in some way, preventing them to reach the target for very fast modulations. The volume for example seems to be more direct in action.
For stuff like you reported here you’d need a filter with audio rate, or even better subsample accuracy, decoupled cutoff and reso modulation to sound real cool. I guess renoise’s filters aren’t at that level yet considering all the other Kinderkrankheiten they have yet revealed. You might rather want to sample a vst that is capable of such tight filter action for your work.
It is just blips and zaps after all, sample a dozen times a dozen of them, put then in a bag, shake, and place them into the pattern editor sorted by timbre. Your timing values make cool hihat/shaker like blips and zaps depending on the audio put through the filter, thanks for the idea!
Well I think it is , because the fader env or the the standard envelope are essentialy the same …just a different appearance.
It’s not just for blips and bloops , …and we certainly don’t need a filter that operates at S.R. …a few ms would be more then enough …there will always be some smoothing .
If you look at my post from 27 january ( max not reached ) …there is a 300 ms time lapse in between the modulations , and the filter is not able to recover back to it’s initial maximum value ?
As soon as there are multiple ( fast exp.) decaying stages in an envelope , it shows it weakness.
Like I have described earlier …I wasn’t able to recreate certain patches because it required a 5 ms env .attack to reach full cutoff …ANy other synth I have does it , nord modular , reaktor , hell even my sampler does it .
Bottom line , renoise envelopes are ( to ) slow and need an overhaul …this is essentially the only thing that bothers me .
But they do the" job for most things .
A nice envelope with tension curves , freely adjustable , fast …bring it on
i’ve been testing a bit your envelope whoes, both DC/saw/square, amp&filt…
if you create another point before the initial 1 value at 0 the filter behaviour ‘not reaching 1’ occurs also. it always happens with very fast extreme changes and i bet the instrument filters are indeed smoothed.
with amp i have same observations as OopslFly, slight kink near the top of peak in result. but nothing dramatic to me.
the envelopes never where renoise forte imho (esp the freely drawable ones), but they do the job for most things… and you mention Reaktor envelopes, i think NI has one of the best bread and butter envs in all their products. And there are a bunch of vst/au around with worse envelopes then renoise imho
out of curiousity, what sounds are you trying to achieve?
out of curiousity, what sounds are you trying to achieve?
A verry basic squarebass sound ( download sq8l …squarebass preset ) …http://www.buchty.net/ensoniq/index.html
It’s a verry simple simple sound , a few detuned squares +lp filtering …a bit of kbd tracking …but the attack stage just doesn’t do it …and yes …sure the filter sounds different …
I nailed the sound in almost every other plugin .
I only have linux/osx machines and atm on holiday but i think i know what you’re after. (tried to compile SQ8L as dssi once but it was a major pain)
TBH i was a bit disappointed when trying to recreate sounds from zebra&diva some time ago, but those have either s-curve/exp env’s or more organic/analog sounding env’s. After building a system on steroids i just gave up trying to recreate those in Renoise. But i agree, the env’s are not the fastest and maybe not the most musical ones…
(on the other hand i think it will be a major task to get them really fast in combination with instr filters, spline-able (true curves), with options for analog randomness etc…)
exactly .!
And I think it has nothing to do with the filters being to slow , the reason why I used the filters to exhibit the slow envelope behaviour is because it is easy to see on the spectrum analyzer , as with the ring mod .
After some experiments i ve got feeling that this is one of the most important updates that should be done.
from 05:00 min. onwards .
CCCcccuuuurvvvvveeeeesss
Bump
This would be great for the new Renoise Update! 
Bump
And while we’re at it , get rid of the 2ms linear interpolation that occurs during the transient phase of the added envelopes …
Doesn’t matter if these are decaying operators or envelopes .
See file
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any news regarding this topic? 
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Maybe already in workz may not - we do not know this but I have trust it might be in work for us.
chekk TopTen tread if you bord and wanna contribute sumething.
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contribute to whole mess -ayyy? 
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Here’s another bump
It is great that we have tension curves , but the otjher issues are still present , in all envelopes modes .
As soon as there is a slight attack fade in ( 5ms ) the modulation amount is lowered .
I really want to bring this under the attention again .
It’ so frustrating when using a short attack -decay time (in combi) and a full mulitplier amount .
The maximum stage is never reached , the decay or attack stage needs be to be longer
This is ot just for the filter (also ringmod etc…) it’s an envelope issue and really hope it gets fixed
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