"Ghost notes" - retriggered sample!! :(

(was: OExx (envelope offset) retriggers sample!! :(/>
Edited out most of my original post, as it was a mess)

“Ghost” notes seem to be retriggering the sample, going against what was established in:

Seems like we’re back to square 1 with the legato/pitch slide thing. :confused:

Yes it seems only to affect the envelopes…
I didn’t noticed the sample retriggering because i was testing with short looped samples.

Without using plugins, this is what can get you close:
It depends on what kind of sequence that you want to do (and what your LPB rate is!), but you can try to copy the sequence from the pattern editor into the envelope arpeggiator (ctrl- or shift click on the fetch button under the note column) and see if you can get satisfactory results with that.

We should at least explain the ghost noting technique on the documentation, i can’t find it anywhere and i know it was somewhere in the former documentation…

Umm, renoise really should be able to do this natively. I’ve never used a tracker that can’t.

A workaround for now is to use GFF commands with the song’s global compatibility set to FT2/amiga, but that affects ALL pitch effects adversely :confused:

Effect column commands affect the whole line, there is not much you can do to avoid it.
Perhaps development can look at the current ghost noting handling and reconsider what happens here. It may be that autoseek is spoiling things or perhaps autoseek can be used to the advantage -> if enabled, then ghost noting also won’t retrigger the sample.

I’d say either that, or GFF could be a special case of Gxx command where immediate “snapping” to note occurs, with no (or extremely short) pitch transition. This is the way it happens with pitch-slide commands in most trackers.

Perhaps this would cause compatibility issues with older .xrns files (but it would fix things for loading some .xm and .it files) - in which case older .xrns files could be loaded with all GFF’s changed to GFE - the difference would normally not be noticeable to the human ear.

Yeah, but full 100% .xm and .it compatibility is not the goal of Renoise.
I’ve at least checked if Renoise 2.6.1 was maintaining sample play position with note ghosting, but it doesn’t either. 2.6.1 was the last version where multi layers were not a feature yet and this is now a serious get-in-the-way -> If you have multiple samples assigned to subsequent notes, renoise will now be forcibly instructed to play that sample because the sample behind the secondary note is not the same sample as the primary note, or at least it could be. (not even mentioning the velocity layers here)
I think autoseek would allow the desired behavior without interfering the old formats too much (though autoseek also got introduced with 2.6.0).
If retriggering would then really be desired, using a retrig command on the effect column or vol/pan column would bring back the old desired behavior (old songs made in 2.6.0 and upwards would then automatically have to be converted with a retrig r00 or r0 command on instruments where autoseek is enabled on samples).
Those are my 2 cents added to the idea. Whether the devs can do something with that is not up to me.

I don’t see why at all. What happens when you use Gxx across samples in 2.8? It just keeps playing the same sample, but “glides” that sample to the new pitch. “Ghost” notes (or GFF) should just do the same, except with no pitch transition.

true, delt!
I’ve never understood what difference ghost notes make. I just know it annoys the shit out of me to delete the instrument numbers… or more that they’re otherwise in the way of interacting with the more useful vol/pan/delay columnies.

Well, in any case there’s currently no correct way to do legato in Renoise, and this REALLY needs to be fixed. I hadn’t noticed this bug in the past few days because i was composing leads mostly with chip samples, just to learn and test out stuff - but it’s a real bummer now that i try to use more “normal” samples/instruments.

I apologize for the fact that i put you on the wrong track with the GN technique and that there is no version of Renoise where the ghost noting works otherwise. However that “other trackers” have this default behavior doesn’t automatically mean that in Renoise this is a bug.
It is a lack, yes and perhaps a feature that can still be added.

Just don’t assume that “Renoise supposed to be a clone of…” or “supposed to be compatible to…” because it isn’t, therefor lacking feature [x] from tracker [y] is not a bug.
However i leave it up to the devs to move this thread to the ideas and suggestions forum for now (as i do consider this a serious lack even though it is not a bug).

Oh… if that’s the case, then i guess the best solution would be to make the pitch mode (FT2/Amiga vs. Renoise) per-instrument rather than global to the song. That would pretty much fix things at least for me.

However, other people on IRC have said they noticed and/or reported this “bug” before. Whether it’s labeled as a bug or not, this “lack” is a rather serious and problematic one, and therefore i believe it still belongs in this section. Renoise not being able to do legato is like an olympic swimming champion drowning in his bathtub.

Maybe 0SZZ or sth can be used to express “play new note but start from current playhead position in sample”
(or 0S00 through 0SZZ can be used for immense improvements in 0S precision!)

Unfortunately, effect parameters don’t go all the way up to ZZ. They’re in hexadecimal, which means 00 to FF. Maybe 0S00, which otherwise has no effect when a note is present? Though that would be kind of clumsy and counter-intuitive.

I still say that 0GFF should be “special-cased” to do this, it would be like in pretty much every other tracker. Or if that can’t be done, then just make the “FT2/Amiga vs. Renoise” compatibility settings per-instrument instead of per-song. (Or even better, both!!)