since the Renoise team always says that are too few people to add the wised features and doing bugfixes quickly, what if Taktik would start a Kickstarter campaign to make Renoise open source?
If the goal is reached, he could make the source available no github.
What is all the work in Renoise worth in money value? What do you estimate? I would estimate 1 million euro.
EDIT: this thread is meant as a serious idea for a serious discussion. It’s not a trolling attempt. If you want to contribute with constructive thoughts, please add below. If you have a ego problem, want to show that you are the most clever guy in the hood or want to have this or that feature, please post your probs in another thread. And post your cat images elsewhere, too.
A kickstarter campaign would need incentives - I can understand you have discovered some issues and is eager to see them fixed ASAP.
But understand also that for most people, Renoise is working fine so they don’t feel the same urgency as you do. So, no incentive.
Hm, to prove this point I would be tempted to create a kickstarter campaign only to see it stall far from your suggested sum.
But that wouldn’t be fair to the backers <_<
Let’s see whether a bugfix release could happen in a shorter time span, followed by a normal point release?
I had this idea before the poly aftertouch problem arised. Just saying…
Well, don’t you think that all intellectual property on Renoise source isn’t worth 1 million? If you calculate over the years you already did this job, it’s not that much money.
A million Euros ? , combine the people posting in this forum, by the amount Renoise gets talked about in other forums (Obviously not all of its users, but a gauge of numbers), you would be lucky to get 100k, it isn’t very popular, and the things it needs adding to make it popular would just make it another DAW to some people, and would annoy the crap out of the geek trackers who hate piano rolls and audio tracks and all that other nonsense.
If the member list is anything to go by, then the user base is approx 10,000?
Even if there are users who do not have an account on the forums, I assume it would not be much more than that number?
With that in mind, I can’t help but share the skepticism of reaching such a goal.
Having said that, Renoise is such a game changer for me that I could not put a monetary value on it and therefore echo your sentiment.
I feel that we are lucky to have developers that have not compromised the software to move it into an area that would make it popular as Bungle suggested. This to me shows great integrity. I really feel as though the dev’s really listen to their user base to produce a product their audience wants and for that I am grateful.
I do however, feel your idea is coming from a good place, maybe there is something else that could be done?
For instance, maybe users with the ability to take a little workload off the developers and that are happy to contribute their time, could offer their help?
The devs have stated countless times before that they don’t wish to work in a way that imposes stress and pressure.Also, it seemsthatfor each new version of Renoise, the code just gets more and more difficult to manage. Maybe with LuaJIT or a full-blown C++ API they could outsource some stuff to 3rd parties. But the devs would probably suggest that the best way to help Renoise as a project is to produce content: great music, Youtube videos and Renoise/Redux specfic resources.
_ Re: Pianoroll and audiotracks _
These features would probably make it much easier for potential users (coming from conventional DAWs) to get started with Renoiseand then actually spend the necessary time required to learn tracking. Just think a bit about that possibility…
^ That I was unaware of. Good to know Fsus4.
I migrated from using other DAWs and use one or two others to complement Renoise. I personally wouldnt use a piano roll and hope that if it is implemented in future versions, that it would not impact it too much and was easily hidden if added. I am getting used to its uniqueness and it has helped to expand my creativity and improve workflow. Plus I think typing text seems to help me distance myself visually and concentrate on listening
I don’t know, 10,000 users sounds like an okay estimate and its totally feasible given the dev team size. Roughly 7 years between major releases at 10k users (most probably bought their licenses at some point in 2.x) times the price for a full major release cycle, divided by the number of devs would be plenty for some decent residual income on the side, but in no way would make money a non-issue and certainly would not turn our wonderful dev team into full-time Renoise coders. If Renoise was gaining 10k users a year, maybe it would be a different story. As users, we’ve got to take into account that funding software development isn’t a one-to-one pay per feature system. Instead, we trade cash for the devs to use their time to build an infrastructure where an already large number of features can co-exist and integrate with each other. I think a Kickstarter to open source renoise is asking someone to put a price on their own time, when some portion of that time is spent not purely out of cubicle work, but joy and passion for making music. I’m not against open sourcing, but it makes no sense to me to crowd fund the purchase of what may be someone’s life work/passion project. Could renoise use some more development help? Absolutely and never soon enough. Is renoise a complex system that can be expanded by throwing money at it? Sure, but it has to be done deliberately and with respect to the project and its intentions. Is there opportunity for third-party development and expansion through collaboration with other firms? Yes, and we’ll have to show Renoise is a worthy product not by building out the feature request list, but by exposing Renoise for the brilliant piece of software that it already is, and attracting new users to the community not through alluring them to obscurity but by showing them how its merits might be just the thing they are looking for in their music production workflows.
3 All the other pieces of software out there that are selling well and have good support systems, they are special, and pretty much all of them do what a tracker can do, plus they do what they are good for in their particular field.
4 And this is the grand daddy of it all, nobody cares, other musicians are actually generally happy with their workflow and again generally are not “looking” for something as you put it, and even if they where, I doubt very much it would be typing hex hahaha, the developers here actually don’t care, I see no hint from them that the end is near, development will be stopping in the next 3 days, download quick we are shutting down the servers.
There seems to be this utter nonsense strain running through this forum that Tracking is actually something quite quite special, well reality check, it isn’t, it is just tracking, yes it is fun, and if fun is not enough for you, then go find an open source tracker that gets updated once every 10 years, trust me, they are all in a worse place than Renoise is, there seems to be this general panic around here that we need more users, we need more developers, did you ever think that the developers that we have could be out busy doing other work to make a living, or they may even be making music, and here is the kicker, if any of you think that any of the Renoise team don’t on a regular basis, probably just as much if not more, use other hosts like Live or ProTools or Cubase and so on, then i tell you now, you are kidding yourself !!
The only way I can imagine Renoise being open source is when the license would be non-copyleft and would read like this:
You may work on this code if the following condition is met:
The money, surplus, improvement that arises from the work that you do with this code is intended to go to the current Renoise team.
Money => current Renoise team
In case one of the current developers might ask if I had NO problem working for another ones fortune and getting 0 cent, and not forking it commercially: Yes, totally. No problem with that kind of license. It’s Renoise.
And if you wonder if open source means instant death: No. Look at Xara LX, all they had to do is keep the rendering component CDraw a secret. The open source version “died”, the whole project per se was not harmed.**
Lately that graphics software that was used to create Futurama was open sourced. They go on with their commercial version afaik. And looking at Android, I don’t think actually it’s all like it used to be.
**IMHO if the DSP code would stay closed source, that would be actually no problem for improving the code base around it, except for some rare things like improving automation. But actually I think it’s all about the license anyway.
Why I’m showing you guys al these topics? To let y’all know this userbase is WILLING to donate money.
This userbase never complains about the cost of Renoise.
Nobody is whining about the price of Renoise is too damn high.
People are WILLING to donate money.
WILLING.
Voluntarily.
You cannot ignorel the Stimulationsebern in a forum, it is just meant to be this way - to make you breed the ultimate forum procrastination skills ever & spread them on all around the globe by becoming a fkn Eber yourself.
Is that an attempt at some constructive criticism of a post, wait , am i using too many syllables for you ?
No, sorry. Maybe just too little punctuation marks…I misunderstood you. Maybe I just don’t like the way you communicate because I cannot stand that massive amount of coolness. But that’s my problem. Nevermind.
since the Renoise team always says that are too few people to add the wised features and doing bugfixes quickly, what if Taktik would start a Kickstarter campaign to make Renoise open source?
If the goal is reached, he could make the source available no github.
What is all the work in Renoise worth in money value? What do you estimate? I would estimate 1 million euro.
maybe im not such a renoise professor/bug discoverer/millionaire as you,
but i can’t see the need for this.
renoise will go s**t if go open source.
get off your hands of it please!
i went through many systems for music and i stopped at renoise for it being stable, fast and exclusive cool peace of software.
excellent work. no need for updates for me currently.
if thing goes to too many open sourced hands, it just gets more problems on board, unnecessary slowing down features, more updates, more fixes, more shitty developers speculating with stupid addons/plugins.
i think this post is a big troll thing among others, that comes here and there on forum attempting to inject stupid multipurpose s**t in the heads of renoise developers.
please dont be an enemy of great working stable renoise. dont ruin it.
I had this idea before the poly aftertouch problem arised. Just saying…