So the possibility of me performing some of my tunes live has landed itself… and I’m now finding myself contemplating how to use Renoise as a live tool. And I’m absolutely lost.
So, I’ve decided to start an amazingly-pinnable (hint hint!) master thread on the art of live performance in Renoise.
Here are some possible discussion topics:
Song/host optimization
Using Renoise as a rendered multi-track playback machine
How to transition between songs effectively
How to accomplish crude beatmatching/beat transitioning (set up in advance?)
Keyboard mapping (with external utilities?)
Effective Midi/gamepad setups
Multi-Renoise-Instance setups
Syncing with other apps
Syncing with hardware or other computers (via wifi even?)
I’ll be back with more possible topics and discussion in about 20 minutes
k… screw that it’s friday night and we’re goin out for dinnah… I’ll be back tomo morning for some more discussion
Thought for using Renoise as a multitrack mixer: Export song to multitrack .wav splitting each waveform by pattern… then load into a new song using the same BPM and pattern length… this will allow for faster live manipulation, and even basic 09xx timestretching
It’s so hard. I’ve rested that renoise is the way I prefer to write and that ableton is the tool for doing that live at the moment. A whole lot more would need to be implemented for me to feel like live renoise would work. I program all my fx for the vocals on the fly, sample them (creating harmonies), cut them up as they are pasted back into a keyboard sample sets so I can play them back via the synth.
To get renoise better at getting song ideas out would be the best for me but when you know a set of tools really well, you really want to just show those skills off when you playing live … so you have the confidence that it’s just going to work. I had to relearn everything for ableton, it’s so clunky with it’s point and click interface T_T and I still feel like if I slip or sweat to much I’m going to reset tracks … lol.
Anyways, Very interested if they dev a ‘live’ element for renoise.
It’s so hard. I’ve rested that renoise is the way I prefer to write and that ableton is the tool for doing that live at the moment. A whole lot more would need to be implemented for me to feel like live renoise would work. I program all my fx for the vocals on the fly, sample them (creating harmonies), cut them up as they are pasted back into a keyboard sample sets so I can play them back via the synth.
To get renoise better at getting song ideas out would be the best for me but when you know a set of tools really well, you really want to just show those skills off when you playing live … so you have the confidence that it’s just going to work. I had to relearn everything for ableton, it’s so clunky with it’s point and click interface T_T and I still feel like if I slip or sweat to much I’m going to reset tracks … lol.
Anyways, Very interested if they dev a ‘live’ element for renoise.
Well, it’s a huge subject and everybody has a different idea about what ‘live performance’ encompasses.
In my opinion, the most useful ‘live’ features would be the kind of features that make it easier to play together with other people.
The last guy is obviously just tweaking things on the spot, which is possible, with techno/gabber music…flicking channels on and off, like you would in Live.
The other guys seem to have a synced setup running…I’m clueless to how they did that though.
Hit play, tweak the BPM as you do with vinyls, is still is the easiest solution. When running multiple computers, this is simple. When playing alone, this is a lot harder because running multiple Renoises on one screen is quite uncomfortable.
Beside the more “MIDI control” thing, I think the most necessary thing for live playing is an ability to play multiple songs in Renoise with one app only, and then also the ability to mix them. I am not sure how this multi song iinterface could look like though…
You’ve probably already seen it, but this is such a perfect example from Danoise of what could be done to renoise to make it Live Friendly.
I’ve done live sets with two computers running Renoise, and its pretty easy to tweak the BPM to sync them. And if you’ve got a DJ mixer you can drop yours in after beat matching. Also, the, pattern trigger button (its SHIFT on the macs, i’m not sure if its the same on PCs) means you can set them starting at the same time easily if you havent already, and Renoise stays in time whilst flicking through patterns, if not fuccking it up a bit…
But I still (personally) wouldnt risk doing it on my own. As amazing as Renoise is, i dont think it’s ready for live…yet…
Good luck to you.
Here, I would like to point out something that have saved me a couple of times - knowing which plugins (if any) you are using in your songs. I was once booked for a concert, but my laptop broke down a couple of hours before the gig. Luckily, I had the whole thing on a USB stick (including Renoise itself!) , so I could borrow a PC and install all the relevant apps in no time.
Track mutes and using ctrl-cursor to hop through patterns seems to work quite well from time time if I’m messing around- it’s reasonably fast. The latter is alot more forgiving if you’re sequencing vsts or external synths with set decay times, have to be careful what NNA settings you’re using and how often note offs are if this is to sound nice(really I mean predictable) with internal renoise instruments. You need to be cocksure of your own timing and rhythm at times.
Is there a jump to pattern command?
One thing I think would be indispensible for live tracking ( and also composition), and I mean TRACKING, is a “select step” function;
Suppose you want to select every 4th line in a pattern ignoring every line between, set the select step to 4, do some key combo to select, perform desired function eg, randomise, interpolate, math on the volume/pan/note delay columns, reverse, copy blah blah
The current inability to select more than one continuous chunk of pattern is, in my opinion, preventing us from tapping a whole lot of tracking speed and versatility.
An assignable crossfader inside renoise would be amazing, especially if you could change the track assignments with pattern command- You could just faf around with the thing in a semi random way, depending on whether that’s what you want.
Also some sort of macro device/ assignable macro knobs thingy
If you’re gonna perform live at the moment make sure you know exactly where everything is, why it’s there and when it’s coming. I think deciding which patterns your going to loop and mess with beforehand is a good idea aswell as possibly merging all the patterns in between to avoid akward moments. Maybe busting your tracks down to a lower number.
If I were to attempt to play any of my songs live I’d definitely try to visually simplify them and have everything pre annotated.
Oh yeah! Here’s one to play around with for live mangling.
Create a pattern and one next to it of the same length containing only pattern effect commands like pitch shift, delay on-offs etc. Loop the Note containing pattern and jump back and forth between it and the effecty one as you see fit using ctrl and up/down arrow.
This can have some fun and original results.
Yes! This is great. It would be awsome with some device, to put in a ( two) tracks. Like “crossfade-device A” in track one and “crossfade-device B” in track two. And a midi–mapable mid-instance to controle between the tracks. This “mid-instance” could be placed in the mixer section.
Please make this happend, this would be awsome in production aswell. Easy and quick!
as powerful as renoise is in the studio, it doesn’t fit into a live-scenario for me atm. For that I need to be able to switch patterns using a midi-controller.
I would love Renoise to have more ‘live’ orientated features. Not that I play live often, but I do like to ‘jam’ with software to create tracks.
I have tried and tried with Renoise to make it workable for me in a ‘live’ situation, but I ended up buying Ableton Live. Create stuff in Renoise; export the tracks/patterns; and jam with the in Live.
To make Renoise workable as an alternative to Live, the most important things for me would be:
Being able to switch patterns via MIDI (you may be able to do this via Bomes or similar right now, but I haven’t tried it.)
Some way of being able to edit your performance after the event, like in Live. I tend to end up jamming for hours, then going in and picking out the best bits or tidying up parameter automation. I could just record the output of Renoise as I ‘jam’, but the killer thing with Ableton Live is that all the tracks are recorded seperately.
MIDI control of stuff like pattern effects. Being able to adjust, say, the retrigger command on the fly could create some lovely noises! An alternative to Live’s ‘rack’ concept would be helpful too, so that lots of parameters can be assigned to a few macro controls.
As the new live-pattern-sequence option is reality (and great fun) I thought also how to use Renoise live.
My intention is to mix 8-10 different songs…
My idea is the following:
Cutting all tracks to max. 8 patterns down including the essential characteristica only of the track. Also 8 channels only (more would not be very clear); set a channel for each sound (e.g. base drum on ch1, etc…)
Merging track1+2 with the php renoise tools
Edit the merged songs: Crop the resulting 16 channel-song to 8 channel again.
Make one or more transition patterns for track1 to 2; save new song.
start with 2.) with the saved new song and the next song to appear in the live act.
Live act:
loop pattern and use the new pattern-queue to select the next.
mute channels
edit patterns live and play them
I will try it out, how much effort is the merging stuff, and how good the live-acting itself works. As the channel-mutes/pattern-selection can not be controlled via midi, I am curios if it makes sense with mouse and keyboard only.
Something as simple as those two buttons for two songs loaded at once
Each instance would be bar synced but not song synced
MIDI triggering of patterns/playable instruments and assignable CC
Feed the master to its own output in each instance and staright into a DJ mixer and i’m good to go
I like this idea. Further uses for this would be to load a old song and copy parts of it into a new one, or having one instance as a sketchpad. But shouldnt there be a way to mix it all inside Renoise somehow? I guess the simplest solution would be if the master channel for each instance get mixed automatically, and crossfading is done by assigning one midicontroller inversley to both master volumes.
I agree that 2 (or more) songs should be loadable before we begin to venture into proper live territory, and I like the two buttons illustrated by Bungle seems like an ideal start to this.
The way I visualise it is by using a single view which has ‘mixers’ for each song which have their own assignable features (like crossfaders & sends). This would mean you could link the outputs from any song into your next one while still having the same means of controlling them. This clearly wouldn’t resolve any sequencing matters like how to play one song into the next, but could give us a unified means of control. I’m probably getting ahead of myself and not thought it through that well, but any solution rather than exporting into a relatively unstable ableton would suit me just fine!
Like some of you others, I’ve exported groups of tracks in renoise into ableton, and I like to divide each song into 6 main elements consisting:
Bass 1
Bass 2
Beats 1
Beats 2
Vocals
Miscellany
All the seperately rendered tracks are then plonked into ableton’s arrangement sequencer view, although I’m not certain this is the best way to do things…
I then assign the a&b sends to midi faders with the ‘a’ send being the inverse value of ‘b’. The ‘a’ send is a clean un-effected track whils the ‘b’ is sent to glitch / osc repeater or whatever I switch on at the time. This allows me quite a lot of control over the effects side of things when used in combination with controller pads, a joystick, and some knobs, but Ableton really doesn’t like too much going on at once and often just disappears in front of me ‘mid session’ which is clearly unacceptable.
Whether these are bugs with the VSTs I use or because one MIDI fader affects up to 8 or more parameters on a single VST is unknown to me, but with thanks to the Hydra device I will probably get around to finding this out.
p.s. can we assign 1 MIDI controller to several parameters yet? (I’m at work so can’t test it right now). This is one major thing that determines my use of ableton at the moment (other than loading more than 1 song).
Just my 2p
p.s. a more ‘global’ hydra device would be nice in this scenario too
But that’s just as easy to do manually…start two Renoise instances, use them just like if they were a couple of turntables…Beat matching is very easy when you know the tempo…Frankly, I find it hard to see how the buttons can make things any simpler than that…?
